Look how stupid your country is, to hand the death of NATO to Putin because you’re on his side.
Thanks for the war and death and heat, Americans.
Fuck you.
We’re pretty pissed off at ourselves right now too. I’m sorry things got this far and wish I could offer more than fear and frustration…
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I keep seeing this sentiment and I don’t understand it. Are you speaking purely out of anger and ignorance? The recent No Kings protest was either the third or first largest protest in the history of the U.S.A. and some communities have literally been running ICE gestapo out of their towns.
The Christian Conservative minority have gridlocked the American government, silently stacked the judicial system in their favor, and partnered with the American oligarchy to bankroll fascists and create the most pervasive, effective, and enduring propaganda machines ever seen (that’s already worked its way into Australia and had been finding footholds in Europe).
The idea that Americans aren’t doing anything about this or that there could ever possibly be a single unified movement that magically fixes “the issue” is incoherently reductive and impractical. If I see a comrade struggling for air I don’t yell at them to just breathe. I help them remove the pig standing on their neck. What are YOU doing to lend a hand or show lost comrades that there’s still hope?
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It definitely isn’t.
It really sounds like you cowards are holding REALLY tightly to the same talking points- so fucking desperate not to face your inadequacy and complete lack of spine. It’s gross, honestly.
Guess what, you’re not “one of the good ones.”
Your comment makes no sense and helps no one.
My word Brotha… just breathe. I know you darn good well if you really, really look deep in the center of it all. I mean like seriously look deep, you and I know who really is at fault. Is it really the common folks and citizens of America? Is it really those individuals who make barely enough to get a meal on their desk, because most of the paycheck goes to rent, house payments, bills and the unnecessary bs insurances? Bro the inflation is so bad that it’s not us. It’s the elites with insane amount of wealth. Plus most of us hate every part of the leadership that runs this country. How is it the common folk’s fault when you know damn good and well that it’s the crazy orange men. And I guess that justifies my statement in saying that, “Guess what bro, you are not the good ones either.”
Coward.
One word response, was all I needed. My precise exact sentiment.
They just had the largest protest in their history, have a handful of cities under military intervention to stop the protests, and are close to elect somebody that promises to fight against the federal government as mayor of their largest city.
What exactly do you expect them to do?
They’re likely expecting what we here in America call a “second amendment solution”, while ignoring that anyone who tries that is going up against the most powerful military to ever exist and will just get themselves killed.
It has taken the religious right almost 50 years of planning to take over government to this point. We’re not going to undo their bullshit overnight. But at least America is finally waking up to it and starting to work against the buffoon we unfathomably put in the white house. As well as the indoctrination the right wing of this country has been under for a generation now.
Thanks for the war and death and heat, Americans.
Casting the first stone from paradise, eh?
Americans have been burning paradise. Sit yout ass down and be quiet.
I mean, not to absolve America of anything, but it’s not like the rest of the world hasn’t been complicit in burning paradise either.
Just removing the US from another world stage
Soon we will be completely irrelevant
Which is the plan
Gonna be as isolated at North Korea by the end of this administration. As trusted too.
Except they have the largest nuclear arsenal and the world biggest navy. They can’t be ignored.
Only “solution” I see is civil war. The nukes are still a problem for the rest of the world though
My brother-in-law is career Navy and he says they’d get mopped by the Chinese.
Eeeeehhh, if you just look at numbers of boats, yes. The US Navy has far, far more experience, though. Drones are also going to change the game in ways we’re only starting to see with the Ukraine War. With that, the answer might be “everyone’s boats are sunk now”.
China probably couldn’t gain air superiority over Taiwan, and without that, an invasion will fail. That will be true even if the US ends up losing more boats.
sounds like E1 speak to me. I’m sure your BIL is a lovely cadet, but he should learn when to turn-to and stfu.
He’s an officer and over 20 years now. This discussion took place shortly after he gave me a tour of the bridge of the carrier he was assigned to at the time. The terminals were running Windows XP. This was 7-8 years ago tops.
ah, so you’re full of shit and know nothing.
Great insight, corporal cumsock
I wish they were just removing themselves from the world stage. What they’re actually doing is shifting away from a model of direct co-operation with allied nations and strong economic ties with otherwise less friendly nations, to unilateral action wherever and whenever they feel like it.
Their foreign policy isn’t moving towards isolationism, it’s moving towards unchecked fascist domination.
lol the currency is heading to worthless, what are they going to buy resources with? Trade also requires allies.
So fucking hyped for this
Honestly, the American far-right unknowingly dismantling US global hegemony piece by piece is pretty sick
they’re doing it very knowingly… they wrote an entire nearly 1000 page fucking document detailing exactly what they’re doing in excruciating detail.
the fascists == idiots trope needs to go bc that’s exactly what makes them dangerous. lots of these fuckers are quite intelligent and conniving. you should be weary.
Oh yeah, they have a plan all right.
Now, the plan isn’t any good and everyone gets screwed, even them.
But it is, technically speaking, a plan!
Oh, we’re weary all right.
the fascists == idiots trope needs to go bc that’s exactly what makes them dangerous.
That plan doesn’t work. It assumes that the rest of the world just sits back and takes their crap lying down which isn’t happening. They genuinely think they can just take over Greenland and nothing would happen. I don’t know if they’re intelligent or not, but they’re definitely delusional.
They’ve handily proven time and time again in recent memory how they can in fact just do things and the rest of the world will sit back and take it lying down, though. That’s the problem. Anyone who thinks it’s just an America issue or something like that grievously misunderstands the tenuous house of cards that the pax americana and era of modern peace is built upon. Realistically, how far are you willing to go to prevent fascism? Would you die for it? Would you crawl through the trenches in a land many seas away from home? Some people might say yes but realistically most Westerners and others would never dare give up their creature comforts. It’s not delusional to think the world can change in the way they suggest precisely because they’ve suggested it - that is the hallmark of the fascist movement and what ties their collective ethos together, a philosophy of domination in all aspects.
Idk in short, I agree that yeah these people are certainly morally bankrupt. Lots of them are delusional. Any group of people has some like that. That doesn’t mean we should strawman them. There’s lots of idiots and they might think the US could invade Greenland without causing an international crisis. Either fortunately or unfortunately, these aren’t the people saying that the US wants to own Greenland or that we should go to war with Iran, for example.
The people who control and run this movement are not delusional. They’re dangerous.
Wary, though I think we’re all weary at this point as well.
i made the freudian slip originally before publishing the comment but decided to keep it in because it felt apt. lol
you should be weary.
Oh don’t worry, we’re really freaking tired and weary of this nonsense.
But we should also be wary of how sneaky these bastards are.
One goal was to increase defense burden-sharing with allies. but withdraw from NATO wasn’t a project goal.
The followers of fascist movements are alsolute morons. The leaders are ruthless and capable opportunists.
Just when I warmed up to the idea that NATO was a necessary evil to counter Putin’s worse evil.
It is but losing the traitor in the assembly is not a bad thing. Now if Europe could jailbreak all that American tech they have in their military gear too, that would be nice.
It also is a necessity to keep the USA from going Putin… Trump wouldn’t stop wanting to be a King. As a King he’d work on becoming the Emperor. As Caesar Donald the step to becoming the god emperor isn’t that big…
As Caesar Donald the step to becoming the god emperor isn’t that big…
Kinda just hoping we can skip all that and go straight to the “Et tu, Bruté?” bit.
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Between this and USAID I can’t say I’m unhappy about it. Of course dismantling imperialism is a good thing, but I also don’t understand. The republicans should be all about illegal invasions, bombing civilians, and installing puppet dictators, so they should love USAID and NATO, yet here we are. Is this just incompetence?
As directed by Vladamir Putin.
How would the military industrial complex not kill Trump if this were true?
Jail, I imagine
What’s next? Helping Russia in their wars? I hope it was fucking worth it to “own the libs.”
Next is Canada and Greenland, then on to Europe where I will meet big daddy Putin in the middle.
China could also attack Taiwan. That’ll go much smoother when USA is alone and distracted
Thanks to nato, america been bombing and organizing coup in ton of countriea with impunity.
france was right all along
Yes, but what’s the point? Nobody listens to France anyway, we are irrelevant. The only way to push our ideas is if somehow the EU embrace them.
And then we’ve got our own issues (doing nothing climate-related, lack of financing for science, nazi ideas getting popular, etc…).
If the US leaves NATO, Europe would lose a lot of support.
If the US stays in NATO, they would refuse to support them anyway and could use their veto power to stop any potential action.
If they’re not going to have the support of the US military either way, and the US staying in NATO could prevent the organization from taking any action at all, it may be in the best interest of Europe for the US to leave NATO so they can’t cripple it from within.
NATO is a defensive alliance so the only thing a US veto would do is prevent Ukraine from joining NATO. But that wouldn’t happen until the war is over, and it doesn’t look like that’s going to happen until Russia’s economy collapses. At that point Russia won’t be a threat for awhile so kick the US out, add Ukraine as a member since Ukraine would be a stronger ally than the US anyway.
You’re confusing NATO with the UN.
They want out because it’s stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
US: We want you to spend more on defence!
Europe: Ok, we will buy more, from our own companies!
US: That’s not what I meant! I’m going home!They wanted to leave during Trump’s first term because it helps Russia’s war with Europe
The increased spending is just meant to make the incumbents unpopular so the Russian backed candidates can win
That’s probably a factor as well.
Cause and effect are a little twisted here. Trump was already undermining NATO during is first term by saying European members should spend more. They didn’t agree at the time, but the Ukraine War proved that Europe really did need a more domestic MIC, and now they are.
Trump wasn’t saying it in the first place because he thought it would help NATO.
They want out because it’s stopping to be a market for the US military industries, as Europe increasingly wants to spend domestically. As such, it now has very little interest.
This is only happening because Drumpf is meddling with deliveries and contracts. It makes America an unreliable supplier and partner when a contract or agreement means nothing because the orange shiteweasel may change his mind tomorrow, and redirect the arms that you already paid for…
They’re also threatening to annex or outright invade long-term allies. You don’t want to be in a war where the people you’re fighting against are the only ones who can maintain and replace your weapons.
And yet the UK is buying more American jets 🤦
BAE Systems is a major supplier.
UK is 15% of the F35a supply chain, and 20,000 UK jobs are involved. This decision helps UK too. I will bet however, that overall, there will be less international money spent with the American MIC, but concede that number will be greater than zero.
Our PMs have been US lapdogs for longer than I’ve been alive; with a similar both sides issue where all the cunts come from the exact same private schools and social circles.
This took longer than I thought it would. It seemed like a priority during trump’s 1st term, then it stalled.
Given some of Putin’s comments lately, he seems increasingly restless. I wonder if this is related to that?
He’s preparing to attack the Baltics.
I would say the rest of NATO should be able to hold against Russia for sure, especially in its current state.
I would just be worried about short-term problems because of disrupted logistics due to the US withdrawing. Or maybe that other countries would follow the US in leaving.
But in the end, that is just my guess.
Nato for sure can stand its ground even without the US. But Russia doesn’t need to blitzkrieg and win huge swathes of territory in order to accomplish their goals of destabilizing the EU. Everyone saying “they’re already losing in Ukraine, they wouldn’t dream of opening another front” obviously hasn’t studied Russian history.
I think the biggest deciding factor in whether this happens or not is actually China. Ostensibly, they wouldn’t risk losing a huge market like the EU but afaik things aren’t going well over there either, so if Xi wants to be the strongman Putin is desperately trying to be just in order to hold on to power, I can absolutely see them choosing Russia’s side in a global conflict.
Based on news lately cracks on Russian economy start to show and their meat grinder in Ukraine crawls forward with massive casualties. At this rate they can’t attack a garden shed.
Putin himself can preparen and wish to conquer whatever he wants but as long as the little remains what’s left of Soviet Union might is scattered around Ukraine, Russia can’t really do anything. If Europe can’t get their shit together and Russia eventually wins (after several years at this pace) in Ukraine it would still take years to build up any kind of military force against anyone and even then they’d need to fight against whole EU and whatever remains are left of NATO.
US: “NATO members need to up their defense spending!”
NATO: “Okay, we’ll do it.”
US: “Actually, We’re leaving NATO.” 🤡
asdf
It’s a common American view that the other countries weren’t spending “enough”, whereas from the perspective of everyone else on the planet it’s America that’s spending a hugely disproportionate amount of wealth on killing, and just expecting its allies to do the same.
asdf
I’m pretty sure that last decade or so has shown that Europe doesn’t spend enough. It’s not just Russia’s invasion. Military action in Libya was reliant on the US to sustain more than a few days of action.
I keep getting this sinking feeling that this is all leading up to a precise and coordinated attack of evil.
Russia bombards the EU, the US attacks Greenland and Canada, while Israel finally bulldozes Gaza and Iran. China takes Taiwan and the south sea.
All at the same time so NATO is overwhelmed and can’t decisively defend it all without risking spreading too thin. No matter what happens, one of the bad guys gains ground.
I honestly have no idea if this is even possible, it’s based on a dream I had a few weeks ago.
Disturbing thought though.
Russia is losing against Ukraine, the fuck they gonna do against EU, unless they use nukes in which case who cares, it’s game over
yup Russia using nukes anywhere near russia like Ukraine would mean the radiation will spread to russia too. so yes, it is game over.
Russia has an army that is capable of invading another country. The only country in NATO that have done that is the US. I don’t think Russia invading the whole of the EU is a realistic possibility but grabbing a few ex Soviet countries off the border…
asdf
You’re right, let me rephrase that. The US is the only NATO country with living experience in invading non-neighboring countries with current methods, doctrines and technologies. That’s not a simple thing to do and that know-how is extremely valuable if you want to invade someone else.
adsf
methods aside. Tiny UK is pretty impressive actually when you think about it, they “united” so many countries all over the globe across the ocean. If only they have treated the people better.
asdf
Also UK returned most of their colonies back to the people unlike some huge countries like russia which is still trying to expand its colonies and territories in this modern day and age. and other huge countries making claims on Greenland or Taiwan.
Russia has an army that is capable of invading another country.
As I said I am pretty sure they can’t even properly invade ukraine and are struggling there.
The only country in NATO that have done that is the US.
I am not an expert on this but I am pretty sure a bunch of EU countries joined the US in afghanistan.
Israel might bulldoze Gaza and maybe a few Mashriq countries, but it would suffocate on Iran. That’s a fucking big country.
Graveyard of empires for a reason. They can try to OORAH!! MISSLES AWAY!!! Iran all they want, the resulting occupation will NEVER be a peaceful one, as there will ALWAYS be rebels in the hills and deserts.
17th biggest in the world. I was surprised when I learned that.
Israel, Iran, China, and Taiwan are all outside the scope of NATO.
Canada, Greenland, and most of the EU do fall under NATO protection though. It’s a defensive alliance with well defined boundaries, member countries may have interests in other parts of the world, but since none of Israel, Iran, China, or Taiwan are NATO members it’s not something NATO deals with. Unless one of those countries were to attack NATO of course.
Russia is in no shape to make war on Europe right now, they have their hands full with just Ukraine, and face economic collapse. Iran is in a similar situation. Trump has stopped his 51st state talk, but he’s insane so you never know. China invading Taiwan? Trump is weak (he only talks tough) so you never know. But China is authoritarian and as we’ve seen of late authoritarian regimes don’t seem to be doing well running military campaigns so it’s possible they don’t even have the capability of invading Taiwan.
China might have a 2 year window coming up where it’s even possible to invade Taiwan. Their military has modernized a lot, but they probably aren’t quite to the point of being able to pull it off. At the same time, they are looking at a demographic cliff from the long term implications of the One Child policy.
It’s possible this window as already closed. That said, authoritarian regimes have started wars before that were terrible ideas.
Yeah with how effective drones have been in Ukraine (especially in hitting the Russian Navy) I kinda doubt they’ll have the capability. I feel like Taiwan is probably developing the capability to mass produce drones right now. They most definitely have the technology. Amphibious invasions are really hard to pull off, and China doesn’t have a lot of naval experience. And nobody has ever done it with a thousand drone boats in the water.
And yup, authoritarians do stupid things with their military, we saw that already with Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. So the question is, how stupid is Xi Jinping? I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
I think China is not stupid. If anything military wise they’ll do against Taiwan, it will be likely to blockade them.
So the Trump strategy of trying to kill trade is “wise” now?
I can see trump believing something so stupid as that, and putin might saber rattle about it, but the majority of the world, and china/india especially in this situation, probably would not go along with it. Europe still has functioning nuclear capabilities. Putin does not want nukes hitting his country, full stop. China does not want a nuclear situation kicking off with their neighbor to the north, and knows that the US under trump would likely turn on them despite a war ruining both countries. India no more wants china controlling the waters to their east than the countries immediately around those waters do, and would likely cause issues, which china also doesn’t want. As we’ve seen in the modern times with ukraine and some of the middle east conflicts and the india/pakistan border, nuclear powers tiptoe around anything that resembles direct conflict. The recent dogfight over the border was a pretty good idea of how reserved even ‘open’ conflict is.
So putin is likely not going to do anything more than a symbolic grunt at his western border, and china will just slowly weather down taiwan if the u.s. is withdrawing its influence. The idea of reunification isn’t THAT taboo in taiwan, and the candidates for it gather a decent chunk of votes. If the u.s. starts acting like a bitch around the world (oh, gee, just look at what’s happening right now), the sentiment towards it and china could easily see a rapid shift.
I agree with you, but my tinfoil hat is telling me to dig a shelter, preserve food and start making ammo. You know, for game hunting.
Many valid points, but having nukes generally only prevents getting nuked, not attacks by other means. At least as long as either party still has something to lose.
ruzzia has had it’s teeth pulled by Ukraine, so despite the barbarian posturing, they won’t be starting another war for a few years.
The thing is the EU is mostly concerned about Europe, while the US wants to play world police. So if China would invade Taiwan and NATO is without the US, I’m not sure they are going to get involved, it would open the gate for Russia. If the US is still part of NATO I’m not sure what will happen as it’s not an article 5 event. So the other NATO countries are not automatically involved even if the US is.
And add a dose of the US invading Canada and Greenland when they’re no longer a part of NATO.
NATO isn’t gonna defend Taiwan or Iran. The US will defend Taiwan, Russia will defend Iran. NATO has no interest in either. NATO will defend Canada and Greenland as best they can.
This is literally the behavior of a traitor
Seriously, what happened USA? You were never the best, not even close, you were one of the worst, but st least you tried. Now you just kinda dropped pretence and went full asshole
And only 6 months into one administration. Honestly I’ve never seen politicians work so fast at anything
4 years followed by 4 years of biden where republicans blocked almost everything but he is now a perfect puppet to blame for everything and now the next 6 months. But Trump already started to refill positions back then.
That’s fine, just pack your shit and close all military bases in nato countries as well.
Hey, you know how much money they spend on having this bases? Some regions depend on it.
On the other hand… I think Trump and his mad posse wouldn’t risc being such bigmouths without their Bases in Turkey or Ramstein.
Also their level of megalomanic moronity makes me fear that when the USA leaves Nato it would start attacking the rest of the world. Canada and Mexico first. Then they would find “justifications” to raid through middle america and “bring idiocrazy” to south america. Reinstating slavery for everyone that ain’t “a good godfearing white patriot”… Because… the white race is superiour and needs Lebensraum… Oh god, I’ve heard that shit all over in history class when I grew up in Germany in the 1970ies…
Please, anyone stop them now!!!
I remember german history class aswell, it might get ugly history seems to repeat itself a lot.
Yes, why do people never learn from history… Especially when it endangers their lives
Damnit I remember the frogging digits of the telefonnumber we had in out flat from where we lived until 1980!
We should wait for them to start a war with someone like Canada, and THEN ambush them. But to do that, Russia needs to be overrun.
I think preventing any unnecessary bloodshed should be first priority.
Unfortunately, that’s not how Imperial Presidencies work.
Does the bill include all military installation closures and those that are on European territories? For example Greenland. If MAGA wants out, then GTFO and I do not want hear any crying afterwards because that will give the Europeans every excuse not purchase US made weapons. I’m certain US MIC lobbyists will weasel their way in to tear apart the bill.
This is what I don’t get about their plan to take over the US. It won’t work because it will cost everyone money, the people they are ultimately beholden to will lose out because of actions they chose to take.
As soon as the consequences become apparent interest in project 2025 is going to drop off a cliff.
As soon as the consequences become apparent interest in project 2025 is going to drop off a cliff.
I want to believe
If they’re going to withdraw then why are they strong arming all the other nations to spending 5% GDP on defense? If they’re not in NATO, who gives a fuck what they want?
Probably because they want those 5% GDP spent for contracts with the 'murican military industrial complex.
But that’s definitely (hopefully?) not going to happen if they pull out of NATO.
Never underestimate the corruption and stupidity of European politicians. “Divide and conquer” works like a charm on most of our corrupt assholes. See the stupid opportunist fuck that the Germans elected chancellor. His (our :'( ) government is pushing for the use of the Palantir(!) software from fucking uber-Nazi-piece-of-shit Thiel in German administrations.
They’re demanding it of Australia (not NATO, but we do have ANZUS) too.
So, they wished the increased spending to the monkey paw and got exactly what they were wishing for: countries are cancelling orders of complex US equipment all over the world, and Europe is developing a military industry to compete with them.
that is the less undesirable outcome, but still it is depressing how primitive and fucking dumb humans are to still be bashing each others skulls in in the year 2025.
I don’t think the US military complex consider that “less undesirable” than basically any other possible outcome.
… well, it may be better in their minds than an asteroid destroying Earth before they can cash-out. Maybe. I’m not sure about this one…
I don’t think the US military complex consider that “less undesirable” than basically any other possible outcome.
Either I disagree about the preferences of those murder-weapons-vendors, or you misunderstood my intentional double-negative, whose purpose it was to emphasize that it is absolutely not desirable that budgets have to be increased for mass-murder weapons.
I am saying the military industrial complex over in the divided states of fuck all and everyone, would absolutely prefer if people bought from them, less so as a cash-out but preferably as a permanent source of income. A privatized murder-weapons industry in the billions is the best way of ensuring we will never get lasting peace on this planet.
Defending yourself is so dumb, hey? Go and whine to Pootin. Everyone else has to react to the bully, or go extinct. Pacifism has no place so long as there is ONE invader/bully left.
I feel sorry for your 1 brain cell.
My one brain cell is sad that you have already been reduced to stupid dad insults LOL. Please bathe next time you’re sober. You smell like piss.
It was a talking point that Trump had in his first term. He tends not to let go of bad ideas once they get into his head.
At the time, people didn’t take it seriously. With the Ukraine War, Europe feels like it has to now. But it’s going to be domestic production, not paying US MIC companies like Trump was thinking.
The 5% is probably too much, but its realistically 3.5% the othet 1.5% can be spend on infrastructure (like make bridges strong enough so tanks can drive over them), on cyber defense and other things that are not weapons.
Also it’s about deterrence, when we spend enough Russia can’t attack unless they match the spending, this is part why the Soviet Union collapsed.
I dont know. maybe to help them get ready or look like he’s doing so?
If you think Drumpf may be a Pootin asset, then it makes perfect sense. Spending more GDP on defense usually makes the incumbent party less popular, which may create opportunity for russia leaning candidates. Obviously, this would weaken NATO. NATO countries go along with Drumpf because they really still hold some hope that USA won’t leave the fold. They are still in the Denial stage of mourning. Anyway, events in Ukraine have shown that more GDP spending on military is pretty much essential for any country within range of ruzzia.
That’s the elephant in the room.
For those who don’t know, Trump is threatening tariffs on Spain for not complying.
To me it means that the threat of leaving Nato is a ruse to facilitate armament for a big war against China. Fewer people would support that.
