We need to remove this cyst of an administration before they start WW3
When it comes to democracy in foreign countries usa always go all in war, bombing civilians… but when it comes to their own democracy they are to scared they will do/say something that will get them cancelled
Democracy was not even mentioned by any one in the orange mans administration. The us is well past such excuses.
I was kinda hoping the US would collapse into civil war before they helped start WW3.
Bugger.
We can do both.
The drives too long for your average US Citizen. at least that was the common excuse on the other site. “Drive is too long to DC” or “I have a job that’s tied to my medical insurance” Best they could do was ONE day of protest. On a Saturday.
Sure glad we dodged that Harris bullet though, right guys! I super wish I hadn’t voted like all the other cool kids though.
I have to say, the one good part of Trump in office is at least you lot aren’t lecturing people on why invading Iran is good, actually!
- W. Bush says Iran is in Axis of Evil bullshit basically telling Iran “you’re next!” while invading Iraq. Iran starts a nuclear program in response.
- Obama fixed things by making a treaty with Iran, and got the Nobel Peace Prize (though not in that order which was a bit weird, but whatever)
- Trump cancels that treaty and assassinates an Iranian General
- Biden tries to restore the Obama treaty, but Iran doesn’t trust the US (wonder why?). So no treaty, but also no war with Iran.
- Trump gets in again drops some really big bombs on Iran
“BOTH SIDES!” say both the MAGAs and leftists in unison.
Yeah, you’re right. I’m sure the Democrats would not have supported Israel in Iran, same as how they didn’t support Israel in Yemen, or in Lebanon, or in Gaza, or in Syria, or in…
If Kamala had won, I (trans latina) would not have had to flee the US. But they’re both the exact same amirite? (I’m honestly a little grateful for that. The US is trash. I’m never moving back)
Edit: my point is that people are literally fleeing the US because it’s a sinking ship. Under Kamala, immigration and tourism wouldn’t have changed much
“I would be alright”.
…Here’s a thought exercise for you: The year is 2028, Trump is running for a third term, and the Dem ticket is… IDK, Newsom/Buttigieg or whatever, and the big thinkers of the DNC have come up with a foolproof plan to steal away MAGA voters: they will agree with exterminating trans people, but! BUT! will firmly, and I mean FIRMLY stand behind gay marriage. And you’re trying to explain that both of those choices are unacceptable to you, and in response are met with an avalanche of mockery because “sure, yeah, one side wants gay marriage banned, but they’re both the exact same amirite?”
Seriously, though, best of luck. Not to assume stuff about your situation, but getting out sooner rather than later sounds like a good move.
Here’s a thought exercise for you:
Try it for a fucking change.
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You’re doing the leftist reductive thing so complex issues become a simplistic “it’s all the system, man…”
This doesn’t make you look as clever as you think it does. It’ll eventually turn you into a conspiracy nut where everything is because of “them”. Please make an effort to stay on topic.
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Do you deny that Iran is committing genocide. Then you’re the genocide denialist!
Or maybe we shouldn’t weaponize the word genocide and discuss serious issues like adults instead of playing word games?
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Oh, it’s not the “system, man”, it’s you. As in, you, @SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca, personally. You are the exact person I’m thinking about when I say this, and it’s frankly amazing you decided to throw your hat in ring here, while simultaneously defending attacks on Iran elsewhere.
Obama fixed things by making a treaty with Iran, and got the Nobel Peace Prize (though not in that order which was a bit weird, but whatever)
I don’t understand how anyone could be so blatant about their own mental gymnastics.
Are you not aware of the treaty? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Comprehensive_Plan_of_Action
Or are you not aware that Obama won the Noble Peace Prize?
Or maybe you just don’t have a sense of humour so you think a joke about Obama getting the Nobel Prize before doing the treaty is “mental gymnastics”?
Ah, sorry a lot of folks here are getting a bit wacky with apologia, and I could see them actually putting forward the nobel peace price as an argument for Obama not being a war criminal, so I did take it a bit too seriously. Poe’s law I guess. My apologies!
That said, he is a war criminal though, and I feel like you’re cherry picking little bits out of all the presidencies to confirm your point.
Here’s an example in the other direction, maybe it’ll help you see how unconvincing an argument you’re making:
- Clinton: illegal bombing of Yugoslavia, sanctions in Iraq that have been estimated to kill 500k children.
- Obama accelerated the drone program, killing 10s of thousands of Afghanis. Under his leadership, and entire wedding party was murdered in Yemen. Pledged 3.8 billion dollars a year for a decade in military aid to the apartheid ethnostate Israel as they were regularly bombing the Gaza strip. Pledged not to persecute the CIA operarives who carried out the torture of uncharged civilians.
- Trump withdrew from Afghanistan.
- Biden sent 17.9 billion dollars in nilitary aid to Israel as they were carrying out the genocide in Gaza. Bombed Syria.
You’ll note that I omitted Bush. He was really bad. Like, Hitler bad. Not a redeeming quality about him.
At any rate the point is that every single president since Eisenhower, every single one, no exceptions, has been a war criminal, and pretending that any one of them was pro peace is a joke.
Well, at least your inability to do the bare minimum to keep a tyrant king from being elected resulted in you being able to find a bright side to all the suffering he has caused.
So happy for you
Man, you Americans really do think everything is some foreigner’s fault?
Well, when a clown pops in to argue against a comment that calls out AMERICANS that refused to vote in protest, one would assume said clown is American.
Forgive me, clown. The fault is my own.
The fact that you think the constant whining and blamecasting at nobody in particular constitutes a callout speaks volumes. And the fact that your first resort on being challenged is a barrage of insults speaks even more. Someone more intellectually minded might even use it as a jumping off point for some introspection, or see the parallel with US politics in general and foreign policy in particular - but, of course, that would risk recognizing the nose and rainbow hair as the reflection in the window pane that they are.
Honk-honk, Buttons. Honk-honk.
Cool story. But, I’m not going to get into a senseless slap fight with someone that is irrelevant to the topic, so you’re going to have to just go find the argument you’re so clearly desperate for- somewhere else.
Never thought I live to see someone fuck up worse than Bush Jr.
He just got the US into a war where there’s nothing to gain, zero upsides other than bending the k we to Israel.
We are only 6 months in…… fuck us
fuck up worse than Bush Jr
Trump is an enemy to the US. He isn’t fucking up, we’re letting him succeed.
Musta missed 2019 when the US was caught with their pants down during a global pandemic, despite having a pandemic plan in place just a few years prior. Ultimately ended up killing over a million Americans… And the guy got re-elected.
two things can be shite at once buddy.
No one said otherwise.
The original commenter said they hadn’t seen anyone fuck up this bad since Bush. The responder is simply implying that they think the covid response was an equally bad fuck up.
that’s not the math I took from it. but, fair point, I reckon.
Some of them have.
What’s next? Launching a war against the Ukraine to appear Putin?
You dumb fucking orange man.
…do you think Putin wants Iran to be bombed?
Strangely yes. This jacks up the price of oil in a way that doesn’t dirty Putin’s hands. It’s a bit of a weird play but makes some sense.
Iran is a major trade partner and an important partner in the Ukraine War and they were both important allies of Assad and worked closely together in Syria. They have deep ties. There’s no way the price of oil is worth losing one of their key allies in the region.
Why not? They have strategic value sure but Russia is nearly bankrupt, Iran for an extra year or two of solvency makes sense to me. Further weakens the US too.
It told you why not! Because Iran is an important regional ally and business partner and military asset.
Russia sacrificing an ally like this for something as paltry as “gas prices” would be short-sighted in the extreme.
Although since you seem to think Russia is “nearly bankrupt” and that this only buys them “an extra year or two” that explains why you don’t think this matters.
Yeah the condescending really explained your point. Import export numbers, critical resources only Iran provides Russia, strategic geographic and political value. You really covered it all in those… 3 sentences formatted as paragraphs. Worthless. Down vote me if you failed econ 1.
Jesus do you want me to write you an essay?
I will say they just entered a new 20-year bilateral trade and military cooperation treaty on Jan 17th of this year, which is hardly something Russia would do if they were willing to just destroy Iran in a few months. They did this because trade between the countries has risen sharply due to the sanctions against Russia, and that’s not going away any time soon so it would be foolish to sacrifice them at this stage. Then there’s the suspected missiles and drones that Iran has been (possibly) supplying Russia for its war with Ukraine, and blowing them up would disrupt that supply line.
But if you’re determined to believe Russia wants Iran to be bombed, I won’t be able to stop you.
If Iran gets their own nukes, then Russia loses a big bargaining chip.
Honestly, that’s probably the only reason why nukes weren’t used.
If Iran gets their own nukes, one of Russia’s most important allies in the region is safe from attack. That seems a lot more useful than a “bargaining chip”. Now, Russia risks losing an important ally and whatever bargaining chip they may have had.
You’re reading the play like Russia wants an ally.
What they want is a dependent.
Iran supplies an absolute shit ton of military supplies to Russia.
Only empires can have dependency, Russia isn’t nearly that strong. Russia needs allies or it will be overwhelmed.
Russia is a real country run by actual human beings. They’re not Mordor with a dark lord commanding an army of orcs. And Russia wants allies. They’re up against a vast global US-lead alliance system. Of course they want allies.
This is some of the most geopolitically misinformed shit I’ve read in a while, congratulations.
Great rebuttle. Really drove home your point with facts and evidence. Oh no sorry, didn’t get bogged down with those… Or post any, or even a differing opinion. Just the snide of… Did you by chance drop out of school?
Plus the whole world destabilization thing
Do you think Trump didn’t ask permission to his master before bombing Iran?
Netanyahu?
Although it’s not like Trump is some puppet on a string. The whole US government wants war with Iran and it has for my entire life. There doesn’t need to be some secret master behind this (Israel, Russia, whatever)
Anybody else remember Cheyney singing “bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran?”
Lol Netanyahu is not Trump’s master, he’s his business buddy.
The guy thinks like an 80s caricature of a business man. He wants to build resorts in Gaza so he cozies up with Israel. Plus there’s oil and natural gas in Iran. Iran is a friend of China which Trump desperately wants to look strong against.
He doesn’t care about Israel or Palestinians (or anyone for that matter) he couldn’t give two shits. If the roles were reversed, he would cozy up to the power in charge.
I’m not saying he’s a great strategist, I think he goes with the opportunities and jumps on them when he can and he takes a lot of miscalculated risks, exactly like he run his other businesses.
But one thing for sure, he asked Putin before he did launched his pew pews on Iran.
Do you think Biden wouldn’t have done the exact same thing to “defend” Israel?
This is clearly about Israel and the long-time desire for war with Iran in the US government. Blaming Russia is, frankly, absurd.
Trump certainly would like to have Putin as a business buddy, he’s an 80’s deals guy after all, but there’s no business here that benefits Russia so that’s also absurd. Russia does not benefit from Iran’s collapse. This is very bad for Russia.
Biden wouldn’t have voided and left the Iran nuclear agreement (that he himself helped to negotiate and put in place) though, which was the stone that got all of this rolling in the first place.
I’m not blaming Russia, I’m not saying Dems were not gonna side with Israel. You asked if Putin wanted the strikes on Iran. I’m saying there’s no way he wasn’t on board.
Does he like it? I don’t know but one thing for sure is he knew about the strikes and agreed to them. With all that Trump did to benefit Putin up till then, no way in hell he didn’t ask permission to do that move…
And I’m saying there’s no way Putin wants Iran to be bombed, and so therefore this was done without his permission or knowledge.
Yup. When have established powers ever liked a revolutionary government? We don’t have to like the type of revolution Iran underwent to acknowledge that it was a radical revolutionary government in the literal sense of the term. No country on Earth has a form of government like Iran’s. It’s pretty unique. Any time a decent sized country tries is taken over by revolutionaries who attempt a radically new form of government, they receive immense opposition from the old powers. All of Europe declared war on France for chopping the head off their king. Every western government embargoed the people Haiti for daring to violently overthrow their slavers. An expeditionary army of numerous capitalist powers invaded the nascent Soviet Union to try and shut it down. And Iran has been under massive sanctions since they dared to throw their western-backed dictator out by force.
Established powers always try to clamp down on any kind of revolutionary government. It’s not that they fear the government itself; they fear the ideas that government represents. Iran needed to be punished. It needed to be embargoed into poverty. They couldn’t just let Iran try out its new form of government and let them sort themselves out. Because if Iran can overthrow a western-backed puppet and seize control over their own natural resources? Well that’s an idea that could spread far and wide.
After existing since 1979, Iran’s government is pretty far from “revolutionary”. In fact, looking at their domestic policy, I’ll call them reactionary without a second thought.
Their most “revolutionary” thought probably was: “let’s export our theocracy to other lands”.
They are a symptom however. The shah was so unpopular (read: repressive) that islamists were able to take over. The shah was propped up by the UK and US in the 1950-ties, in a coup, because Iran nationalized oil industries.
Who would stop him?
Yankee go home. And stay there.
When the corporations start dividing your population and guaranteeing their own interests over democracy, look at what happened to us and learn from it. It doesn’t stop here.
Ugh. This kind of hits hard.
I know people who are active in the military (yes they are stupid and yes it doesn’t take much analysis to figure out they’re probably magats). In particular I know several who have been to Kuwait and seem to regularly get stationed there.
I’ve known several people who died by suicide from PTSD from Kuwait, or Iraq.
There’s a girl, she’s a sergeant. She’s in until 2028, been to Kuwait already. I don’t know if she’s even 23. She certainly doesn’t come off as a magat. But it doesn’t really matter. 23 is an adult yes. But to me? I’m 34? She’s just starting life out. To get killed in this kind of war is gross.
There’s fucking nothing traumatic happening in Kuwait right now. Or in that last 20 years for that matter. Get your head out of your ass. What is this bullshit pulling on your heartstrings fearmongering nonsense comment. “She’s been to Kuwait already” dumbass I’ve been to all the bases in Kuwait multiple times it’s chill. They train and they have a taco bell. It’s admin HQ for operations nearby
The PTSD folk? They were in the expelling force in '91. The others were in Iraq (mainly after 2003), and came through Kuwait.
Kuwait was chill after the Iraq regime fell.
Kuwait is right over the Persian Gulf by Iran. It won’t be chill for very long.
Of course the PTSD folks went through it. Though I am arguing with you I want to make it clear I meant zero disrespect or antagonization for anyone who lived through that as part of the expelling force. I was there as a citizen. My point was that your comment made it seem as if Kuwait has been a hot zone in between those times and I got upset and perhaps reacted poorly.
Oh, no, not at all. It’s purely about its location and importance than worry me.
And your point here besides pointlessly insulting everyone serving in the armed forces?
Hello world war 3.
It’s being nice knowing you, humans
Happy 3rd war in the Middle East everyone!
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Hey dude, we didn’t all vote for him
You remember when Russia invaded Ukraine, and the whole western world collectively decided being Russian made you ontologically evil?
Well, that.
No, no we did not. Actions by a state doesn’t justify collectively dehumanising an entire population. Gazans didn’t become inherently evil because Hamas did October 7, Chinese aren’t inherently evil because of the Uighur Genocide, Russians aren’t inherently evil because of the invasion of Ukraine…
You may think that now, but I distinctly remember the then-prime minister of Estonia and current vice-president of the EC honouring a summit where the participants were carrying around a blow-up shark. Why a shark? Well, a random Russian tourist got killed in a shark attack some time earlier, and, well, dead Russian, ha-ha.
It’s good to see the sentiment has receded somewhat, but it is concerning that it literally took the tables turning to get people to self-reflect.
You mean the 1.000.000 russians who went to war? Yeah they were evil. The basic vatnic I don’t know. Putin and the Kremlin for sure.
Collectively Russian are good people. It’s all Putin’s fault.
I’m gonna need the world to do this to us Americans after this. Make us a pariah state. Toxic. Radioactive even. The announcement of joining hands with the US or US Corporations should be met with broad condemnations and a revisiting of treaties.
Anyone who still thinks Trump is to blame just isn’t paying attention.
These strikes would’ve happened no matter who the president was it’s a geopolitical inevitability.
And yes, it’s becoming increasingly clear that Ukraine is in serious trouble now.
Taiwan and South Korea probably shittting their pants right about now as well. Daddy’s about to be too busy to help out when their possed off neightcome knocking
They’ll be next — just not immediately. Over the next couple of years, Ukraine will likely be partitioned, and as the war with Iran de-escalates, a new conflict will be needed to fill the vacuum. That’s how the cycle tends to work.
I’m waiting to see if Trump/pentagon escalates or does their strike package and goes home.
I doubt this is going to lead to some sort of ground invasion. Biden would have done the exact same although maybe more clandestine.
Iran and its allies and proxies have to retaliate against US positions in the region. If Iran doesnt respond, they will be considered fair game for bombing whenever the US and Israel are bored. Both US and Israel just proved that diplomacy is off the table with them. Neither country speaks any language but violence.
I don’t know if they can, honestly. Iran has lost air superiority in their own skies as well as, reportedly, a majority of their long range missile launch sites. US bases in the near gulf states might be in range of Irans short range arsenal, but do they really want a strike into their neighbors territory? We’ll see.
What ground invasion lol, americans have zero chance invading Iran.
yes!
Can’t wait for all the Americans who haven’t done a thing to stop him or to fight his voter base to show up and loudly proclaim that they don’t support this.
Will also get a nice shitty side of “well what do you EXPECT me to DO?”
Congratulations on having the stupidest comment so far. You should be proud.
It was the only comment, so unfortunately also the most ingenious.
Come on, at least call me a keyboard warrior. You guys are going off-script.
It IS probably their script! You can tell reddit is going down when their toxicity makes it’s way over here.
it’s means “it is”. You wanted “its”. Must be the lead.
The only reason you people care so strongly is because of the “51st state” crap. You’re the same small, scared little people that every American is, that any person is, really.
If you think upending your life to start an insurgency on behalf of other people, people on the other side of the planet even, should be expected behavior, why don’t you slide on down here and show us how it’s done? Let’s see your face and a body count on CNN.
Excuses, excuses, excuses
Imagine having the gall to not only say you won’t fix your problems, but then call on others to go and fix it as well.
Americans really are the laziest people.
Give them a break, a new season of oligarchs housewives just started and it’s not like they can just not go to work. They’ll be out next month on Saturday.
If the weather is nice, and, you know, if they can get all the proper permits for their parade.
Bret McGurk was literally just on CNN… BIDEN’S GUY!.. and basically endorsed the strikes. NOTHING WOULD HAVE CHANGED IF WE VOTED FOR HARRIS. WHEN WILL YOU GET THIS THROUGH YOUR THICK FUCKING SKULL?!?
You keep telling yourself that
Okay mods I’ll be civil. I basically said “I saw it (what this person is responding to) with my own eyes.”
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You think Harris would have ignored the constitution like that? Sure buddy
OF COURSE I DO!!!
EVERY administration since the establishment of this country has wiped its ass with the text of the Constitution!
Cool, guess you’ve done all you can. Great work. Sit back, have a coke, watch tv. Be very proud of all you’ve accomplished.
Okay mods I’ll be civil this time. Since voting does nothing positive and only serves as a cudgel for politicians to claim that they legitimately represent their subjects, then if you only voted, it is slightly more useless than doing literally nothing.
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