Personally, I don’t think even Merz is at the point just yet to outright create a coalition with them. However, that they did push a directive and try to push an actual law through parliament with AfD votes already is a sign of the direction things may end up going. Who knows, in a few months or years, there might just end up something happening like trouble in the most likely coming coalition of CDU/SPD, where the CDU just says they “had no choice” but to introduce a proto-fascist law that they and the AfD support, but the actual ruling coalition did not, resulting in legitimising them more and paving the way for an actual coalition.
Wanting to leave NATO, withholding weapons from Ukraine and talking to Putin isn’t exactly “working against” fascism. That’s very much the Neville Chamberlain approach … but even he came to his sense after the full scale invasion started. Can’t say the same for die Linke.
That seems even more revisionist. If anything I’d have expected it from Winston “I believe in Aryan race science” Churchill.
Chamberlain was buying time for rearmament. It wasn’t actually necessary and it was, in fact, pretty fucking stupid because Germany was rearming faster than France and Britain put together, and his betrayal of Czechoslovakia with their fortified border was even more galling in face of it, but the idea wasn’t to ally with Germany as far as I’ve seen anyone claim.
The British spent the entire 1930s claiming that Britain and Nazi Germany will be a bulwark against communism and signed three pacts with Hitler which were all directly against the Soviet Union: the Four Powers Pact meant to exclude and isolate the Soviets, the Naval Agreement meant Germany could have a navy up 35% of the British navy meaning it wouldn’t threaten British empire but every country on the Baltic sea… i.e. the Soviet Union, and finally the Munich Betrayal which was understood to be a gesture of a “free hand” (British diplomat’s words not mine) for Hitler to go east.
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax and other members of the British Government were fully aware that the Fuhrer had not only achieved a great deal inside Germany herself, but that, by destroying Communism in his country, he had barred its road to Western Europe, and that Germany therefore could rightly be regarded as a bulwark of the West against Bolshevism
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax recognized that the Chancellor had not only performed great services in Germany, but also, as he would no doubt feel, had been able by preventing the entry of Communism into his own country, to bar Its passage further West. The Prime Minister held the view that it should be possible to find a solution of out differences by an open exchange of views
When the Soviets liberated Germany they were able to get a huge cache of British diplomatic documents. The Soviets released the above book and Documents And Materials Relating To The Eve Of The Second World War Vol. 2 full to the brim of diplomats praising Nazi Germany as a twin pillar alongside Britain stopping communism.
So did the warsaw packt and russia today even has them lead armys again. Your point?
While not fully denazifying west germany didnt hide their identities and they were out right critisised. Especially when a former office nazi got elected chanclor (Kurt Kissinger). He even got hit and boohed in public. Behind the iron curtain they outright hid the nazis. Hired SS and Gestapo for the Stasi (unlike the west).
I am comparing it because i know thats where you are going with your argument
While the Warhaw pact did have their own limited project paperclip it is a fact it was the west that fully incorporated the nazis into their regime.
The point being they both were anti-communist.
The west also helped escape 1000’s of the worst SS nazi warcriminals (ukranians) and relocated them to Canada.
What was their use?
There is zero equivalence and you can’t find more than some cherrypicked examples.
To the Russians some could be used but were their enemies, unlike the west where they had plenty of fascist sympathisers in Europe or N America. https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
“and russia today even has them lead armys again”
LOL is that your claim? Let me say it for you, Ill cherrypick Dimitry Utkin for you bcs because i know where you are going with your argument.
A guy from a private militia who is in no way part of the Russian army, as events later made abundantly clear.
You can find individual nazis in almost every country.
Guess who those Russian nazis are fighting for? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/
Ukraine has multible openly fascist batalions like Azov, Sich, Tornado and plenty more.
Where WW2 warcriminals are honored, etc…
And let’s not forget how the west now whitewashes the horrible Navalny, who organised the Russian marches before they were forbidden, a racist making videos of him shooting muslims that he called cockroaches.
A disgusting criminal sold by the west as some brave hero fighting for democracy.
As riculous as saying Azov are totally not nazis anymore bcs they changed their logo.
If only Hitler would’ve done something to his swastika, he could’ve been a brave anti-commie fighter hero.
Don’t care, I’d rather live under the neolib European governments any day than a fascist Russian shithole. It’s not even a difficult choice. It’s not like there’s some leftist utopia as an alternative. The neolibs don’t murder gay people and don’t decriminalize violence against women as a state policy.
Without NATO, we’re going back into the age of territorial conquests and nationalist revenge campaigns. Russia and China aren’t the only countries where this crap is normalized (see Hungary - lot of my fellow Hungarians thinks Slovaks are just Hungarians forced to take up a Slavic language, and in reality they’re just a lost tribe of Magyars called “the Tóths”).
Name one agressive expansion of territory by nato.
And no. The former occupied eastern europe countrys joining nato is not military expansion. They wanted to join and are still indipendent in everything they do
What do you consider 'expansion of territory '?
That is an outdated concept.
The US has used NATO to attack and control other countries without ‘expansion’. That would be to obvious colonialism. They “intervene” (mass murder and destroy the brow people countries) then install their puppet like in Afghanistan.
They use more sneaky regime change tactics in Europe.
Ukraine was a good example, with the Nuland-Pyatt call telling them who should be president. (And “fuck the EU” OC)
in Georgia they sure tried but failed.
They are ‘bodybags’ combined with NATO weapons as Soros said in '93 explaining how NATO could destroy Russia (so peaceful). And no, there is no context.
But if they have to they blatantly bomb cities and an embassy like Yugoslavia.
The US blew up our Nordstream pipeline forcing us to buy their expensive gas and destroying our economy.
Not one peep from our bootlicking EU leaders.
That sure sounds like we’re independent.
And now the poodles complain they don’t get respect? LOL
This is another example of Schrödinger’s NATO, where actions perpetrated by the USA is blamed on the entire organisation, yet NATO is a symbol of Western imperialism.
Which is it? If all of NATO but the USA want one thing, and the USA overthrows your government, is it NATO’s fault or rather the USA’s? Are tankies blaming Iraq on NATO too?
What are you talking about.
NATO IS the USA, they decide and nobody else.
The vasals will pay for it, provide assistance and get to take care of the millions of refugees caused by it while the US plunders the poor victim of the day’s oil and resources.
If you don’t get that then it’s hopeless.
If that were so all of NATO would have joined and supported the gulf wars and Afghanistan, which didnt happen. If that were also the case, the USA and Soviet empire wouldnt have stood against britain and france (both NATO members) in the suez crisis
Had to protect the surplus profits of Capitalism at all costs. A century of wealth needed to be consolidated in the hands of the ubermensch. You know, Mohammed Bin Salmen and Amancio Ortega and Elon Musk.
SPD is just standing by not doing anything (except being corrupt), basically silent complicity. The greens are also not clearly positioning themselves against the anti immigrant hatred, but they are still doing much better than the rest imo.
I agree with you on the SPD, but Habeck was pretty fucking clear that Abschiebung is not the way to go. The Linke on the other hand seems great until you see their position on NATO, rearmament, Russia, and Ukraine…
My dad literally voted for Volt instead of Grüne because “the Grüne was to positive about immigration”
Correctly but, me who is supporting both volt and grüne and even is joining volt in summer, but with volts goal of a united europe,…that seems pretty pro immigration.
Not to mention also them wanting easier immigration.
It’s just stigma against the Grüne; hypocrisy at its purest. In other words: I don’t think he actually cares about immigration, he was just using it as a scapegoat.
I see peoples issues with the linke as largely unimportant. Having 9% of the seats taken by nato critical people is a healthy contra to the overwhelming majority that would never dare to criticize their sometimes criticism worthy decisions. If you never have anyone looking at things from an outside perspective the governement will lose touch with reality.
Fair enough. While I myself wouldn’t vote for them, I do agree that they are by no means evil. Their position certainly may even be valuable, I concede. I don’t want my preferred party (the Grüne) to be the most radical left party, it’s always good to have an even more left party to balance things out. We don’t want to end up like the US, where even moderate things like universal healthcare are viewed as radical in the state. Democracy serves it’s purpose. In other words: you’ve pretty much convinced me (though I would still vote Grüne).
Behave like social democrats, push to fund infrastructure and school upgrades (instead of defunding them), not have a leading candidate that was involved with the biggest tax fraud scheme in recent history, etc
Considering that Putin is the biggest fascist threat for all of Europe, your statement is laughable. The Left agree that Putin is doing bad things in Ukraine and other countries but their message is that the domestic social net is more important than Europe’s survival and all weapon deliveries must stop. Let’s talk instead.
If policies were up to them, they’d be helping fascism almost as much as outright Putin sheep
Sadly true. Fuck the CDU and AfD. Nazi helpers and Nazis.
Did they make a coalition with the new nazi party?
Even if they don´t officially, they might just push through all the right wing policies with the votes of AfD.
The next weeks and months will show.
Ok because the last I saw, there was a “firewall” to stop any coalitions with them.
Personally, I don’t think even Merz is at the point just yet to outright create a coalition with them. However, that they did push a directive and try to push an actual law through parliament with AfD votes already is a sign of the direction things may end up going. Who knows, in a few months or years, there might just end up something happening like trouble in the most likely coming coalition of CDU/SPD, where the CDU just says they “had no choice” but to introduce a proto-fascist law that they and the AfD support, but the actual ruling coalition did not, resulting in legitimising them more and paving the way for an actual coalition.
I hate to say it, but i expect your prediction is what is going to happen.
Not yet, we will see in a few weeks
SPD and Grüne are helping the rise of fascism too even if it’s not on purpose. Die Linke are the only ones in parliament actually working against it.
Wanting to leave NATO, withholding weapons from Ukraine and talking to Putin isn’t exactly “working against” fascism. That’s very much the Neville Chamberlain approach … but even he came to his sense after the full scale invasion started. Can’t say the same for die Linke.
That’s such revisionist history. Chamberlain wasn’t appeasing Germany, he was aligning with Germany against Communist Russia.
He wasn’t surrendering, he was allying with fascism.
Source?
That seems even more revisionist. If anything I’d have expected it from Winston “I believe in Aryan race science” Churchill.
Chamberlain was buying time for rearmament. It wasn’t actually necessary and it was, in fact, pretty fucking stupid because Germany was rearming faster than France and Britain put together, and his betrayal of Czechoslovakia with their fortified border was even more galling in face of it, but the idea wasn’t to ally with Germany as far as I’ve seen anyone claim.
The British spent the entire 1930s claiming that Britain and Nazi Germany will be a bulwark against communism and signed three pacts with Hitler which were all directly against the Soviet Union: the Four Powers Pact meant to exclude and isolate the Soviets, the Naval Agreement meant Germany could have a navy up 35% of the British navy meaning it wouldn’t threaten British empire but every country on the Baltic sea… i.e. the Soviet Union, and finally the Munich Betrayal which was understood to be a gesture of a “free hand” (British diplomat’s words not mine) for Hitler to go east.
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax and other members of the British Government were fully aware that the Fuhrer had not only achieved a great deal inside Germany herself, but that, by destroying Communism in his country, he had barred its road to Western Europe, and that Germany therefore could rightly be regarded as a bulwark of the West against Bolshevism
In spite of these difficulties Lord Halifax recognized that the Chancellor had not only performed great services in Germany, but also, as he would no doubt feel, had been able by preventing the entry of Communism into his own country, to bar Its passage further West. The Prime Minister held the view that it should be possible to find a solution of out differences by an open exchange of views
When the Soviets liberated Germany they were able to get a huge cache of British diplomatic documents. The Soviets released the above book and Documents And Materials Relating To The Eve Of The Second World War Vol. 2 full to the brim of diplomats praising Nazi Germany as a twin pillar alongside Britain stopping communism.
NATO is a fascist organisation.
You Germs should know that since they incorporated plenty nazis in the organisation.
https://www.dispropaganda.com/single-post/2019/04/04/natos-secret-nazi-past
So did the warsaw packt and russia today even has them lead armys again. Your point?
While not fully denazifying west germany didnt hide their identities and they were out right critisised. Especially when a former office nazi got elected chanclor (Kurt Kissinger). He even got hit and boohed in public. Behind the iron curtain they outright hid the nazis. Hired SS and Gestapo for the Stasi (unlike the west).
I am comparing it because i know thats where you are going with your argument
While the Warhaw pact did have their own limited project paperclip it is a fact it was the west that fully incorporated the nazis into their regime.
The point being they both were anti-communist.
The west also helped escape 1000’s of the worst SS nazi warcriminals (ukranians) and relocated them to Canada.
What was their use?
There is zero equivalence and you can’t find more than some cherrypicked examples.
To the Russians some could be used but were their enemies, unlike the west where they had plenty of fascist sympathisers in Europe or N America.
https://ebeggin.substack.com/p/ratlines-nato-and-the-fourth-reich
“and russia today even has them lead armys again”
LOL is that your claim? Let me say it for you, Ill cherrypick Dimitry Utkin for you bcs because i know where you are going with your argument. A guy from a private militia who is in no way part of the Russian army, as events later made abundantly clear.
You can find individual nazis in almost every country.
Guess who those Russian nazis are fighting for?
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2023/03/04/russian-neo-nazi-hooligan-who-led-anti-putin-militia-across/
Ukraine has multible openly fascist batalions like Azov, Sich, Tornado and plenty more.
Where WW2 warcriminals are honored, etc…
And let’s not forget how the west now whitewashes the horrible Navalny, who organised the Russian marches before they were forbidden, a racist making videos of him shooting muslims that he called cockroaches.
A disgusting criminal sold by the west as some brave hero fighting for democracy.
As riculous as saying Azov are totally not nazis anymore bcs they changed their logo.
If only Hitler would’ve done something to his swastika, he could’ve been a brave anti-commie fighter hero.
You haven’t got a leg to stand on.
Don’t care, I’d rather live under the neolib European governments any day than a fascist Russian shithole. It’s not even a difficult choice. It’s not like there’s some leftist utopia as an alternative. The neolibs don’t murder gay people and don’t decriminalize violence against women as a state policy.
I’ve got some horrible news for you.
That’s the fascist Banderites you support.
https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2019/03/ukraine-activists-at-womens-solidarity-event-must-be-protected-from-attacks/
Don’t try to deflect, you’re fine with Russia murdering gay people.
Weak.
You’re deflecting when called out on your BS, prove your “Russia murdering gay people” lies
Isn’t Amnesty an evil neoliberal org? Or are you a weird kind of tankie that doesn’t really have issue with it?
Regardless of that, it’s just like saying “Palestine deserved it” because Hamas and radical Islam.
I’m not going to react, your nonsense from your response says enough.
I’ll take government failures to control their pigs over actually siccing the murder pigs on the protestors.
I’m sure you can post proof of the government murdering womens marches, let’s see it
aaaaaaand nothing 🤡
Campists these days are so funny, because now they’re getting all their opinions from the US state department.
Without NATO, we’re going back into the age of territorial conquests and nationalist revenge campaigns. Russia and China aren’t the only countries where this crap is normalized (see Hungary - lot of my fellow Hungarians thinks Slovaks are just Hungarians forced to take up a Slavic language, and in reality they’re just a lost tribe of Magyars called “the Tóths”).
NATO is territorial conquest by the US.
Europe are just vasals.
Name one agressive expansion of territory by nato.
And no. The former occupied eastern europe countrys joining nato is not military expansion. They wanted to join and are still indipendent in everything they do
What do you consider 'expansion of territory '?
That is an outdated concept.
The US has used NATO to attack and control other countries without ‘expansion’. That would be to obvious colonialism. They “intervene” (mass murder and destroy the brow people countries) then install their puppet like in Afghanistan.
They use more sneaky regime change tactics in Europe.
Ukraine was a good example, with the Nuland-Pyatt call telling them who should be president. (And “fuck the EU” OC)
in Georgia they sure tried but failed.
They are ‘bodybags’ combined with NATO weapons as Soros said in '93 explaining how NATO could destroy Russia (so peaceful). And no, there is no context.
But if they have to they blatantly bomb cities and an embassy like Yugoslavia.
The US blew up our Nordstream pipeline forcing us to buy their expensive gas and destroying our economy.
Not one peep from our bootlicking EU leaders.
That sure sounds like we’re independent.
And now the poodles complain they don’t get respect? LOL
Ok Tankie.
shouldn’t you be beating up anti-genocide protesters while doing the Musk salute?
A tankie on .world? Funny
We’re having all the fun ridiculing all the fash and the lib enablers.
Good for you .world isn’t as restrictive as the tankie triade
NATO is liberal and that comes with all of the problems of liberals but in what ways has it functioned as a fascist organisation?
https://www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2024/01/12/nato-as-seen-from-one-who-grew-up-under-us-sponsored-neofascism-unherd/
This is another example of Schrödinger’s NATO, where actions perpetrated by the USA is blamed on the entire organisation, yet NATO is a symbol of Western imperialism.
Which is it? If all of NATO but the USA want one thing, and the USA overthrows your government, is it NATO’s fault or rather the USA’s? Are tankies blaming Iraq on NATO too?
" if all of NATO but the USA want one thing"
What are you talking about.
NATO IS the USA, they decide and nobody else.
The vasals will pay for it, provide assistance and get to take care of the millions of refugees caused by it while the US plunders the poor victim of the day’s oil and resources.
If you don’t get that then it’s hopeless.
If that were so all of NATO would have joined and supported the gulf wars and Afghanistan, which didnt happen. If that were also the case, the USA and Soviet empire wouldnt have stood against britain and france (both NATO members) in the suez crisis
Had to protect the surplus profits of Capitalism at all costs. A century of wealth needed to be consolidated in the hands of the ubermensch. You know, Mohammed Bin Salmen and Amancio Ortega and Elon Musk.
Bold statement. Do you have any examples? I would disagree, but maybe I just don’t quite understand what you meant.
SPD is just standing by not doing anything (except being corrupt), basically silent complicity. The greens are also not clearly positioning themselves against the anti immigrant hatred, but they are still doing much better than the rest imo.
I agree with you on the SPD, but Habeck was pretty fucking clear that Abschiebung is not the way to go. The Linke on the other hand seems great until you see their position on NATO, rearmament, Russia, and Ukraine…
My dad literally voted for Volt instead of Grüne because “the Grüne was to positive about immigration”
Correctly but, me who is supporting both volt and grüne and even is joining volt in summer, but with volts goal of a united europe,…that seems pretty pro immigration. Not to mention also them wanting easier immigration.
Does your dad know something i dont?
It’s just stigma against the Grüne; hypocrisy at its purest. In other words: I don’t think he actually cares about immigration, he was just using it as a scapegoat.
I see peoples issues with the linke as largely unimportant. Having 9% of the seats taken by nato critical people is a healthy contra to the overwhelming majority that would never dare to criticize their sometimes criticism worthy decisions. If you never have anyone looking at things from an outside perspective the governement will lose touch with reality.
Fair enough. While I myself wouldn’t vote for them, I do agree that they are by no means evil. Their position certainly may even be valuable, I concede. I don’t want my preferred party (the Grüne) to be the most radical left party, it’s always good to have an even more left party to balance things out. We don’t want to end up like the US, where even moderate things like universal healthcare are viewed as radical in the state. Democracy serves it’s purpose. In other words: you’ve pretty much convinced me (though I would still vote Grüne).
What should the SPD be doing?
Behave like social democrats, push to fund infrastructure and school upgrades (instead of defunding them), not have a leading candidate that was involved with the biggest tax fraud scheme in recent history, etc
I nisunderstood, I thought you were calling them to do something about AfD more directly.
Not on purpose?
That Baerbock is a horrible warmonger
Considering that Putin is the biggest fascist threat for all of Europe, your statement is laughable. The Left agree that Putin is doing bad things in Ukraine and other countries but their message is that the domestic social net is more important than Europe’s survival and all weapon deliveries must stop. Let’s talk instead.
If policies were up to them, they’d be helping fascism almost as much as outright Putin sheep
It is so fucking sad that the tolerance “paradox” goes all the way to fucking war.
Like you literally have to fight a war against war seekers if you don’t want war. Like fucking hell, why can’t we at least be chill there?
De-Nazification never happened.