Hey, From what I heard, the budget needs to be approved by a 60% majority in the Senate. This means that the Democrats can currently veto a budget. If this is extended without end, could they functionnaly disolve the federal government and maybe start a new union of Democratic states? Do taxes continue to be perceived? What happens legally if the shutdown lasts until the midterms? Can states form another Union without leaving the current Union?
This is mostly a legal question, because the Democrats are never going to agree to such thing, and because the Republican would then start a civil war to stop it.
The record, the GOP could, if they wanted to, have a simple-majority vote to change the rules for this particular vote, such that it would only require a simple majority to pass.
They don’t want to do that, because this shut down gives trump extreme power to determine what is or isn’t “essential”. So, ICE, FBI, law enforcement, the Military will continue working/operating without pay. same with the fuckers building the ballroom. people who are not essential- like national parks, the government’s cybersecurity guys, people that support wick or snap or HUD etc… the courts…
yeah. So. basically it’s all just a giant cash and power grab. Nazis doing Nazis shit.
In any case, if somehow they manage to not ever get a bill past, yes, eventually the government collapses and shit gets real fucked real quick.
Thats more or less what the GOP want, though. which is why they made it incredibly objectionable and refused to negotiate with the Dems.
and yes, if the government gets funded again, you will still owe taxes.
Just for context, almost every federal court is a branch of a state court. State courts are still functioning. This is how a lot (not all) of the govt is.
So yeah lots of workers furloughed but barely a single building unoccupied due to the shutdown.
This is equally true of cybersecurity. For example, a non federal sysadmin may have privs to install, remove, maintain security software. That software is a private company and 24/7 SOC.
Source: im a apart of your 24/7 SOC with lots of govt clients, many clients with both federal and state workers, etc. don’t worry. Our govt IT Infrastructure isnt protected by feds, it’s protected by firms like rapid7, Huntress, Crowd strike, Sentinel one, etc.
Just for context, almost every federal court is a branch of a state court.
This is not true at all.
Federal courts are part of the judicial branch, not the executive branch. So they don’t shut down when the executive branch “shuts down”, because the shutdown laws don’t apply to them. As a practical matter federal courts can keep running for a while using saved up court fee revenue. They will eventually run out of that money and gave some tough choices about what to do.
They operate under the exact same roof. Usually labeled as two separate addresses for tax purposes. It is exactly true.
And to add to that, the Republicans can remove the Senate *filibuster at literally any time with a simple majority vote so it’s clear they think it still serves them to leave it in place. They will remove it when/if that calculus changes.
It’s insane that such a pivotal rule is removal by simple majority
Repubs also know from experience the dems will fold on threats of scuttling the ship of state.
Just like increasing the borrowing limit in 2024 was it, or 23, and not defaulting. Biden said for months he would not negotiate, and then folded like a cheap suit when it came down to it. Not a one-off situation the Democrats always fold.
Dems will give in on terroristic threats. There is no improving anything until we get new opposition politicians that is all there is to it. If Hakeem and Chuck are still running the show you might as well not pay attention because it will just harm your mental well-being. Not a single challenge for any leadership positions what the fuck is wrong with this party?
The military can only be funded for two years. But otherwise some things are indefenent. Laws would still be valid. But with nobody getting paid it would crumble, yes. Theres a reason why these things typically last weeks.
Two years at peace or at war?
War is peace now, hate is love, etc. Perpetual 1984.
Constitutionally, it doesn’t matter. Practically, the two year limit has been very generously interpreted.
It’s just the apportionment of funds. So the military can’t coast forever without congress giving it money.
Until the 1980’s, the Federal government never shut down if they didn’t have a budget. Instead, it would operate as previously budgeted and departments would forgo large expenditures. An opinion written by the Attorney General changed that.
I would imagine it could change back to the old system if pushed.
The Federal system is like any other pact. It needs everyone involved to follow the rules in order to function.
Yes, if a group decides to destroy the system and the rest of the people decide not to fight, the system collapses.
It worked in Rome for a bit until the main guy ended up in the river
Anybody “could” do anything. It’s all made up. Government is just a set of rules we all agree to play by, so any group of people could “decide” to stop playing by the rules and start playing by different rules. That’s why the Confederacy happened.
The only question is, do you have the strength (militarily, usually) to back it up. Because, no, legally what you’re talking about isn’t a thing.
Not that there’s an alternative, of course, if no agreement is reached. The government just stops. Taxes continue, the military goes on (at least for two years), but that’s about it. There’s no default state or last good save for us to revert back to.
The “Big Beautiful Bill Act” was a budget that passed through the Senate with a 51-50 vote on July 1, 2025. (The tie vote coming from the Vice president because not all of the Republicans to voted for it.)
Only 4 budget bills have passed without using the reconciliation process since 1974. It is pretty much the expected process at this point.
They could just get rid of the filibuster.
When you do it through reconciliation they only have 20 hours on the floor, so I doubt the Democrats would even bother trying to filibuster for 20 hours because it ultimately does nothing but waste their day. It would go into effect either way
