• ☂️-@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      arrow-down
      8
      ·
      17 hours ago

      no use for supposedly honest people if the system itself is corrupt.

      • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        edit-2
        13 hours ago

        Anyone trying to overhaul a corrupt system would know that infiltrating it is a highly effective opposition tactic. You’re not speaking for progress, you’re speaking for contrarianism.

        Edit - besides, she’s using political donations to feed people. Corrupt systems absolutely have uses for honest individuals, because your potential allies in poverty are starving to death and she is feeding them.

        • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          14 hours ago

          infiltrating capitalism to ‘defeat it from the inside’ is famously ineffective.

          • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            7
            ·
            edit-2
            14 hours ago

            This isn’t infiltrating the vague concept of capitalism, it’s infiltrating congress. She’s not trying to climb some corporate ladder here.

            What, exactly, has been more effective in the US? Capitalism still isn’t defeated, as far as I can tell.

            What the fuck do you want her to do, stop? Go home?

            If you want heroes, if you want martyrs, if you want real people with real power and real megaphones, you need to work with the tools you have available. Whatever else you’re doing hasn’t worked any better than what she’s doing. Unions are still operating under the umbrella of capitalism - they sign deals with capitalists all the time. Do you think we should stop unionizing?

            • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              11 hours ago

              yes. infiltrating capitalist institutions famously doesn’t work. we call those entrists.

              i don’t care for lone wolf martyrs. be them entrists or shooters or bombers alike. those can be cathartic but this is it.

              leftists organizing their own institutions is what historically works, and is a better use of talented people’s time and abilities.

              and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.

              • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                10 hours ago

                and yes, it has worked in the US to give workers better wages, and famously the right for workers to have a weekend and the 8hour-maximum workday. entrism on the other hand never did much of anything.

                … HAH. No… just, no. That’s not what centrism is, and that’s NOT the story of how we got the 8 hour workday.

                We have (or in some cases had) the 8 hour workday, OSHA, social security, legally protected unions, etc as a result of the New Deal.

                What was the New Deal?

                Well, an extremely progressive “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt - ran for President, and won. He took over the Presidency in the depths of the Great Depression, and Democrats attained majority in both chambers of congress.

                They gained complete political power largely because Republican policies had sent the United States into an economic nosedive. They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.

                Sound familiar?

                He - alongside Congress - passed a whole bunch of legislation, created a whole bunch of federal agencies, and forced through massive leaps forward in labor protections and social welfare programs.

                That’s why you have the 8 hour workday.

                Read a book.

                • ☂️-@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  2
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  10 hours ago

                  the new deal came about because of socialist pressure. thats also why it ain’t happening again, because there are barely any socialists in the us anymore.

                  grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions

                  who was supporting grassroots work reform? thats right, the socialists. under the threat of violence. saying it was simply “grassroots support” whitewashes all the blood spilled to make it happen. it wasnt given by benevolent capitalists.

                  “centrist” (your words, not mine) - Frankin Delano Roosevelt

                  i literally said nothing about roosevelt or centrism in any of my responses to you. putting words in my mouth.

                  you are the one who should read a book, preferrably something not whitewashed by the CIA or something, cause holy shit.

                  • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    3
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    10 hours ago

                    You’re absolutely right - the New Deal was possible because:

                    They also gained unprecedented political capital for progressive policies by grassroots support in response to the horrifying economic conditions all across the United States.

                    That is in fact the grassroots support I’m talking about, thanks.

                    How do you think we had a Congress and a President who were willing to listen to those grassroots movements?

                    That’s right - Americans elected a whole bunch of people like the candidate in this article.

                    The one you claimed we “have no use for.”

    • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      arrow-down
      22
      ·
      17 hours ago

      If by grassroots you mean suspiciously funded by 80% out of district and living off her rich republican parents money to do it

          • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            5
            ·
            9 hours ago

            Irrelevant.

            You’re implying she’s corrupt because her funding comes from outside her district.

            I am pointing out that her funding comes from her Tiktok audience - who come from outside her district.

            Are you willfully approaching this conversation in bad faith?

            • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              edit-2
              3 hours ago

              who come from outside her district.

              She’s from outside her own district. That’s the primary thing that shows her blatantly questionable goals. She lives in a challengeable district with a dem who should be taken out. And she chose to campaign in an entirely different one.

              Yes, she’s very likely corrupt. She’s unemployed, runs a sketchy campaign with astroturfing and refuses to address in any AMAs why she’s moving to our district later and why she’s going straight for the highest seat in a district that isn’t hers.

              • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                ·
                edit-2
                18 minutes ago

                Wow, thanks for making me look more into this.

                So:

                1. She’s campaigning in a district where she will replace an 80 year old retiring progressive
                2. She has an extremely consistent track record of progressive advocacy
                3. Since when does temporary unemployment imply corruption?
                4. Her campaign seems almost entirely social media and local charity work.
                5. She has 200,000 followers which seems to have grown over time with several prominent videos.
                6. Her funding is tiny compared to the average $2.8 million spent by winners of House races.
                7. Not here to reduce a woman to her husband, just pointing out a cool fact and rock-solid evidence that she’s probably legit - she’s MARRIED TO THE CEO OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS THE ONION?! The source of the Pultizer-worthy headline, " ’ No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"?
                8. With regard to #7 - there’s no evidence she “lives off her republican parents” - nor would that be an indication of corruption.
                She lives in Chicago, is campaigning in Chicago, and has *specifically answered this question, spoiler to limit the wall of text

                Abughazaleh currently doesn’t live in the 9th District. Though in-district residency isn’t required of congressional representatives, Abughazaleh said she and her partner are “imminently moving to the district” in Chicago’s Far North Side, explaining that they moved to the area last year on “very short notice” and had to take the first viable apartment they could. When the RoundTable asked why she’s running for the seat currently held by incumbent Rep. Jan Schakowsky in particular, Abughazaleh said her campaign “isn’t a referendum on Schakowsky” but does see the district as an especially good fit for her aim of disrupting the Democratic Party’s status quo.

                “I was already gonna move to this district in the first place, and it’s also historically one of the most progressive, on the cutting edge, influential districts in the country,” Abughazaleh said. “I can’t think of a better place for a campaign like this one to be received.”

                Source

                By the way, anyone in the back: did you watch the goal posts move? Did you watch us move right along, without any defense for the first claims? Do you notice how no matter how many times OP is objectively incorrect or uninformed, they just double down?

                • Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  edit-2
                  2 hours ago
                  1. Since when does temporary unemployment imply corruption?

                  It makes me question where she’s funding her lifestyle.

                  1. Her campaign seems almost entirely social media and local charity work.

                  That’s bad. Real world efforts are necessary. Giving campaign funds to charity is sketchy at best when you’re showing it off to pretend you’re morally superior

                  She’s campaigning in a district where she will replace an 80 year old retiring progressive

                  Irrelevant as the 80 year is retiring anyways.

                  She has 200,000 followers which seems to have grown over time with several prominent videos.

                  So? Genuinely hilarious how irrelevant this point is.

                  1. Not here to reduce a woman to her husband, just pointing out a cool fact and rock-solid evidence that she’s probably legit - she’s MARRIED TO THE CEO OF THE COMPANY THAT OWNS THE ONION?! The source of the Pultizer-worthy headline, " ’ No Way to Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens"?

                  I had not heard this. However, it will not change my viewpoint that she’s as this post demonstrates running an extremely questionable and too early campaign, as well as being an out of district plant by not even trying to have lived a real period of time in the district she’s planning to run in.

                  She lives in Chicago, is campaigning in Chicago

                  The vast majority of the district is out of Chicago. Also, she’s not campaigning in Chicago. She’s campaigning online.

                  By the way, anyone in the back: did you watch the goal posts move? Did you watch us move right along, without defending the first claims?

                  Any one of the points is enough to make her not worth voting for. Her being out of district alone is ridiculous. If she genuinely cared, she should be running for a district she actually lived in. You are blatantly ignoring how much an issue an out of district congressperson is. Pretending it doesn’t matter just because you like the vibes of the candidate. And it really is just that and nothing more, just vibes. She has zero lower experience in politics, no record, no evidence of capability.

                  Especially when she’s consistently astroturfing reddits, it makes me question where her actual in district relations are. If she even has any.

                  • Initiateofthevoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    11 minutes ago
                    1. She has past jobs, and a husband, as you’ve learned and instantly made up bullshit about
                    2. That’s BAD? Campaign financing is almost exclusively used for shit like billboards, TV ads, and wealthy silver spoon galas and you think it’s bad that she’s using hers for charity? What the fucking bad faith, Batman.

                    Almost all congresmen have extremely blatantly obvious corruption and political bribery, and you’re just pulling absolute bad faith bullshit from thin air about how giving crowd-funded money to charity is a bad thing.

                    Get the fuck out of here. Unbelievable.

                    The fact is she has a large social media presence that explains her funding, her campaign strategy, and her so-called “astroturfing”. Which, again - if you gain a large part of your political support from an organic social media presence primarily focused on progressive politics, that’s the goddamn definition of grassroots, the literal fucking origin and opposite of the term “astro-turf”’

                    Especially when she’s consistently astroturfing reddits, it makes me question where her actual

                    Ohhh, you still give a shit about Reddit. Okay, now I understand the type of conversation this is. L, O, fucking, L.

      • madame_gaymes@programming.dev
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        53
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        1 day ago

        Although I agree with you, we will not get out of the hole we’re in if we don’t support people like this to overtake the ones that are legitimately hungry for power.

        On the flipside, there’s always the possibility she’s doing this as a stunt and doesn’t mean any of it. Plenty of Gen-Z pretend to feed homeless people on TikTok, could just be a glorified version of that.

        • GreatWhiteBuffalo41@slrpnk.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          12
          ·
          1 day ago

          She’s got a beach cleanup going on this weekend. From what I’ve heard, she’s been at every event she’s hosted and she’s actually out there getting dirty. I’m not in her district but it’s not far from me. I might go just to see how it all works.

        • BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          10
          arrow-down
          16
          ·
          1 day ago

          I do genuinely hope I’m wrong, but even at a very basic level here - she’s using funds people donated to her campaign for a purpose other than campaigning,.did she make this clear to people before they donated? If it is just being done for campaign clout then it’s kinda disingenuous by definition. I do hate that I’m this cynical fwiw.

          • cjoll4@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            40
            ·
            1 day ago

            Yes, she’s been very upfront about it. She makes it clear at her fundraising events that the proceeds are going to charitable organizations. Her campaign has been soliciting canned goods and menstrual hygiene products, instead of cash, in exchange for yard signs and stickers.

            I get your cynicism, it’s a well-known adage that anyone who seeks power doesn’t deserve it. But for as long as we have elected federal representatives, I’d prefer to elect representatives who actually make tangible efforts to take care of people. Even if you see it as self-serving, to me it’s refreshing to see a candidate appeal to voters’ compassion instead of appealing to their fears and prejudices.

          • madame_gaymes@programming.dev
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            16
            ·
            1 day ago

            It’s all good, I’m in a similar cynical boat. By default I don’t trust anyone that’s in the spotlight by choice.

            However, if shitty people start doing things like this just for clout, well it’s better than the Nazis that are taking things over right now I guess that don’t even try to pretend to be a good person.

      • anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        20
        ·
        1 day ago

        At least it’s a better platform than “Everything is that other groups fault, let’s hate on them and be angry!” that s eems a bit too common.