“I would estimate that the entire fediverse is developed off of the backs of maybe, at best, 100 engineers,” she said. “All of whom are either low paid, underpaid, or unpaid, who are trying to build software, and at the same time, are supporting the userbase of monthly active users in the range of 1.1 million to 7.4 million.”
Transcription-Kevin Durant meme, “LIKE 100 PEOPLE:”…“Y’ALL THE REAL MVPS”
My respect goes to them
I reported a server where the users harassed, both online and offline, a trans woman who later killed herself. Then they made memes about her death. Discords ‘safety team’ suggested I talk to the server admin (who was part of the abuse) and closed the ticket.
They only understand when lawyers talk to them.
That’s disgusting.
It was a server for an irl streamer so I expected it to be toxic. I did not expect that level of toxicity. A bunch of untreated sociopaths.
That sounds like Discord alright.
discord tries to be a good company challenge (impossible) (deleted in 24h)
If anyone is looking for an alternative to discord, please check out revolt.chat The interface and user experience is the closest I’ve seen to discord (miles better than any Matrix client), has functioning voice chat (being rebuilt for more stability) custom server roles, and a functioning youtube music bot called Remix. They’re doing awesome work over there!
Edit: Forgot to mention that it’s also open-source and self-hostable (although not federated)
I think the problem with projects like that is they end up with stuff like this: https://i.imgur.com/PRX4haL.png where the only recommended client is one that is unmaintained.
Though I hope Revolt succeeds because Discord has way too big of a monopoly.
Though I hope Revolt succeeds because Discord has way too big of a monopoly.
I don’t understand why everyone thought moving everything to discord was a good idea that wouldn’t backfire for a million reasons.
By chance do you happen to use Revolt? If so, do you (or @Takeshidude@lemmy.world) know which client might be good to use?
I have just started using it, but I’m planing to migrate my small Discord group over to Revolt.
If you go to their website revolt.chat it’ll offer a download for desktop or a link to the web app, but they’re basically the same. They’re working on an updated client called Frontend which you can get a beta of from GitHub.
I’m on an iPhone and I used the save to Home Screen function in Safari while in the web app to get an icon for it, and I think it works pretty well! It can even do push notifications, but some weird artifacts of using the web app on mobile mean you’ll only get notifications from mentions in a server or a direct message (or group message).
well i use guilded the most
I did try it, but it was missing video streaming last I checked. Also, they made self hosting without docker incredibly difficult.
may I ask why you’d prefer setting things up manually without docker?
Imho, copy & pasting a provided docker-compose is much simpler.
It’s mostly about having the ability and wanting to avoid any extra layers of abstraction. I think docker takes up more disk space than pure install but not 100% on that. Only app that I have w docker is Immich right now and would love to just uninstall docker entirely but … I can’t.
that’s true. Docker images indeed take up more space, especially if you don’t prune old unused images, it can quickly pile up.
to mitigate that, always go with the alpine-version of a service (if it’s available) since these are much smaller in size and are barely noticable.
New apps should be Docker compatible out of the box, change my mind.
An app that expects to be widely distributed and used but is Docker exclusive failed before even starting.
First of all, I said “compatible”, not “exclusive”. Second of all, why would it fail? Even if there was no tutorial how to run it directly on a system, a docker image carries all the information you need to run it on a given system. That’s why we have Dockerfiles.
We like to think that what we are doing is the only valid way of doing things, specially when we are on the bleeding edge, and we forget that there’s a whole world of people and possibilities (and a history before ourselves) for whom our one solution is not the holy grail for. Not every production environment or homelab is centered around containerization. Yes, it is cool and useful, but it doesn’t exhaust every use case. Some people just don’t use containers and if your app is exclusively available that way, then it’s extra work to use it, or it just won’t even be considered at all.
The wisdom of moving slowly and fixing things
Thank you. I would prefer not to install docker, that is just a personal preference, but so many apps are like uhh, we don’t know how to run this without Docker. Usually there is a way buried in layers of github issues but just like… why.
If the app is not Dockerized, it’s useless.
mumble
Ventrilo? TeamSpeak?
what’s the license?
why not matrix?
I’ve got a Matrix server up and running and have tried a couple of different clients, but at the end of the day the Matrix UX isn’t really an alternative to Discord, rather an alternative to Facebook Messenger/WhatsApp or other group message platforms.
The main thing I would point to is that Matrix itself only does text; the Element client uses Jitsi to add in audio/video calls and screensharing, but at least right now, it’s the only Matrix client to integrate voice, video, or screenshare.
My other gripes are just with the user interface, but if you open any of the Matrix mobile apps and compare it to Facebook Messenger and to the Discord mobile app, and you’ll see it really doesn’t look like Discord. I wish I could quantify it better, but Matrix just doesn’t feel like Discord whereas Revolt does.
The main thing I would point to is that Matrix itself only does text; the Element client uses Jitsi to add in audio/video calls and screensharing […]
Matrix VoIP is a thing, and it’s usable for audio & video on many clients, element and fluffychat come to mind, but probably more.
element call is also coming into element (and possibly other clients) for video calls and screensharing
My other gripes are just with the user interface, […] it really doesn’t look like Discord
why does that matter?
installed userbase and the inertial resistance of individuals users (and even more so as a group)
Not Similar to Discord
No voice chatrooms so it’s not similar. The most similar open source solution I’ve seen is Mumble
what the fuck was wrong with IRC
No voice chat, mainly. I don’t want to play League and chat on IRC lol.
About a dozen modern QoL features, like not having to host your own server to be able to receive messages on mobile clients
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yea
Jumping from one proprietary system to another isn’t really an improvement.
At least you have control over your data and you and your friends can blame you for server crashes lol.
I didn’t realize it was possible to host your own backend locally… I thought it was just hosting the webUI locally.
Yep, you can host it all yourself. Both UI and the server. Not sure how backwards compatible the “public” client is - I remember Rocket.chat Android client breaking by not updating the server on at least 2 occasions over the past 2 years.
Nah, I remember the FMHY crowd keeping their own instance up
mumble
Ventrillo and Teamspeak as well
Costly? They were pretty pathetic spam attempts that are still ongoing.
Ingress and egress costs are real and those assholes attached images to their spam. Hundreds of posts coming in at 700kb a pop does damage if you’re relying on a cloud provider to store your shit. Then, it gets accessed by all your users.
Billing alarms go bing bing bing.
Yeah, I’m running a Lemmy instance maybe we missed out on the bulk of it but it’s been pretty sad over here as far as being able to call it an attack.
Do you have open registration? If not, you probably benefitted from other mods work on this one.
I definitely have benefited as fellow admins were on top of it to the point of automated removal. That’s one of the main reasons this spam attempt is pathetic.
Yup, I’m thankful for their work as well.
From the article they said smaller unattended instances were the primary target. So you might not have been one of the instances targeted, and if you don’t have open registration and/or have captcha on then it wouldn’t be an issue either.
They targeted smaller unattended mastodon and misskey instances… to create accounts there and post their spam all over the place including larger instances and lemmy.
Several hundred posts were removed since then.The spam was still an issue period. It hit every instance regardless of what you’re saying.
Ok so was it an issue or not? You seem to be saying both
It was a minor inconvenience. Pathetic. You’re speaking from a point of view of not understanding that we’re all connected.
Ingress is typically free, but yes
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I don’t get why the Fediverse decided to take on the legal risk and storage cost of downloading every attachment to local servers to be honest.
Privacy. Lemmy leaks your ip all over the internet. Mastodon does server fetch.
I saw a few instances had large bills from their CDNs because some spammers uploaded many attachments. I don’t think this is from the current wave of spam about the Japanese discord server though
Discord only cares about piracy and cp. Because the copyright industry and the police forces them to, respectively.
I doubt they would spend resources on curbing even that if they werent forced tbh.
What if there was a class action lawsuit against Discord from the Mastodon admins?
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Why would a company like discord even attempt to take action against coordinated attacks against anything they see as a threat? That’d only be shooting them in the foot because then people would have the most minute expectation of them doing anything good.
Because some of these actions might qualify as criminal offenses and if Discord had knowledge about it or even supported it, they’d be complicit.
I really hope this blows up in their face if true.
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Ah, Japan, the country that lives in the future, if the future is the year 2000.
From the perspective of looking at the internet of today, the future is 1996.
Change my mind.
There is also discord guilds for sharing cheats, which is very damaging to the massive fps games industry. If discord would be complicit why doesn’t valve or riot sue them?
There is also discord guilds for sharing cheats, which is very damaging to the massive fps games industry
Using systems built into the game is damaging to the industry?
Or do you mean cracks/hacks? Because if it’s a cheat, that’s something the devs explicitly added.
And looking at Nintendo vs the R4, these companies do take down sites discussing/sharing hacks and cracks. Just not as publicly as you might expect it to happen because why would they, it’s just a lawyer sending a very formal letter asking for them to either take it down, or their company will be taken down in court.
I’m talking about aimbots and wallhacks for online FPS games. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://www.piped.video/watch?v=RwzIq04vd0M
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Interesting side note: if discord was e2e encrypted, how should they take action on anything?
If a group decides to swat a server and they can’t review themselves, how should admin moderation work?
(Yes this isn’t the current situation, but I’m on the toilet and it intrigued me)
Then they can’t, and I think that’s also the point. A tool shouldn’t be snitching on its users. If the act itself is illegal, then of course the perpetrators can be prosecuted
Discord:
- Takes down accounts for mass reporting without checking the issue.
- Takes down accounts for sharing slightly copyrighted content.
- Takes down accounts for using alternative discord clients.
- Doesn’t take down accounts related to coordinated spam attacks to another platform.
Discord being discord I guess, but it’s weird, I’ve seen them take down servers and accounts for all sorts of light issues, but not for this?
- Doesn’t do anything to accounts that raided a server, sending members gore and worse videos.
(Lost a good community in the aftermath, and at least one of the offensive accounts is still active!)
If you had put spaces after your dashes, you would have made a proper bulleted list instead of a paragraph. Just FYI.
- Takes down accounts for mass reporting without checking the issue.
- Takes down accounts for sharing slightly copyrighted content.
- Takes down accounts for using alternative discord clients.
- Doesn’t take down accounts related to coordinated spam attacks to another platform.
Wow, thank you, I’m really new to this, I’ll edit the comment, and do that from now on :)
Which is wild because Discord has taken down servers for what is in my opinion pretty benign stuff like independent Korean comic localization groups. (Although I personally don’t use those because it’s generally very shifty people trying to enter DMs of vulnerable people, just get a website dudes).
I’ve seen several people say that Matrix clients aren’t good at replacing Discord, but I’m having trouble understanding what exactly is missing. What critical features does Discord have that a client like Element lacks?
I mean, there is the userbase …
Critical Mass, as it’s sometimes referred.
Here’s a critical feature: Matrix bans people using a VPN. Fuck that. I joined a channel for the first time, said “Hello”, and was instantly banned for “Spam”.
I have to use a VPN because I get my Internet from tethering my phone using EasyTether to make it look like phone data, and connecting to stuff like Windows Update would make it really obvious I’m doing so.
Not sure if you’re joking or not so I’m gonna go see for myself, brb
Edit: what the fuck…
Are you talking about matrix.org? I have my own server. If it bans me, that’ll be wild.
Yeah, I think so. I downloaded the recommended app, connected to the recommended server, added a channel, tried to ask my question, and BAM! That was it.
I think they’re just hyper-vigilante about spammers. They have been targeted with a lot of spam as the flagship server. Unfortunate that you had a bad experience your first time trying it.
Voice chat quality is subpar, there is no screensharing audio, voice chat is buggy on a good day, unusuable on the rest.
Unfortunately discord is the main app used for a lot of communities I follow for specific games, streamer communities, local organizations, etc. But for my friend group we use a self hosted matrix server. It lacks all the nifty bots for music streaming, I’m pretty sure I can’t screen share for movie nights or to share gaming, but it had the bare bones chatting experience
It was false flag operation. https://youtu.be/_KCwq9e-H5M https://fedi.fyralabs.com/notes/9psnooe6p1
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/_KCwq9e-H5M
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
