You say “apple” to me and I’m #1, glossy skin, insides, all that
And how in the hell does one navigate life, or enjoy a book, if they’re not a #1?! Reading a book is like watching a movie. I subconsciously assign actor’s faces to characters and watch as the book rolls on.
Yet #5’s are not handicapped in the slightest. They’re so “normal” that mankind is just now figuring out we’re far apart on this thing. Fucking weird.
EDIT: Showed this to my wife and she was somewhat mystified as to what I was asking. Pretty sure she’s a 5. I get frustrated as hell when I ask her to describe a thing and she’s clueless. “Did the radiator hose pop off, or is it torn and cracked?” “I don’t know!”
EDIT2: The first Star Wars book after the movie came out was Splinter in the Mind’s Eye. I feel like I got that title. What’s it mean to you?
I’m mostly a 5 occasionally a 4 with occasional flashes of 1 when reading a particularly immersive book.
fuck you, I’m imagining a rainbow tapdancing apple with a top hat on a Roomba on a taxi
I can see things in my head, rotate them, look from different angles, try out different colors for a room, etc. But it’s not really the same as seeing visually. It’s just kind of imagining what it would look like. It’s hard to explain. It’s as if you were dreaming it while you are still awake. But also less vivid than a dream.
Same here, I can rotate things in my head and change their color, but it’s not quite HD. It’s like an abstract image of what it should look like. It’s also quite fleeting since I get easily distracted. But when I’m half-asleep or waking up on a lazy Sunday, holy shit, I can visualize so many things in bright colors and can see them clearly. I wish I could do that all the time.
My architect buddy wanted to hire me to handle IT, do drafting in my down time. He met me managing a reprographics shop, blueprint place. “I can’t look at a blueprint and visualize what it’s going to look like.”
LOL, he looked like I slapped him! Totally alien thought to that man.
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On the upside our kids aren’t going to be traumatised by pictures of apples.
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Some people also don’t have an internal monologue. I’m probably a 3 or 4, it takes significant effort to see something in my head. But my thoughts a words and they definitely have a voice.
I assume there is a scale for how well we can imagine every sense.
Some people also don’t have an internal monologue.
I have an internal dialogue.
I have to practice pretty hard to do that, it’s much easier in a journal than in my head to dialogue. Do you find it helps being mindful?
i find it helps finding interesting people to talk to :D
I mean I guess that’s lucky in some ways my thoughts never stop
Mine don’t stop either, but it’s just constant words. Are your thoughts mostly images?
Words mostly but I can visualize accurately
The current prevailing theory is that we (4 here) actually do create the images much the same as you 1s, we’re just not consciously aware of it. Our brains are doing the same thing behind the scenes, and they just translate it differently. Some personal “evidence” of this that I have are that when I’m high, I have an easier time visualizing, and that I dream VERY vividly.
I have a feeling that this is also influenced by people that experienced (emotional) trauma. Some people dissociate from their feelings as a result of things that happened in the past, and this can also impact their ability to visualise things. (Because their brain is protecting them from re-experiencing their trauma)
Mine is probably related to physical trauma. Well, not trauma, but more abnormalities. I have arteriovenous malformations in my brain, around my visual center, and very poor eyesight. The two likely combine in such a way that I don’t get/rely on visual information as much.
Conversely, I have very good audio processing. I love music, wordplay, anything with sounds and words.
It’s pretty amazing how we can adapt to use the mental tools we have to still live in a ‘normal’ way even when we are very weak in certain aspects.
My brain is like a vector database, it stores the “feelings” of information, not the actual information - if that makes sense?
I can make lightning fast connections in my head when something happens, like when something breaks in production, I see the symptoms and the vectors just connect from effect to the cause.
Can I explain to others why and how I know where the problem is? Nope. …Or yes, but it’ll take a long time for me to follow the feeling-vectors and put them into words I can actually communicate to other people.
For actual people and characters in books I also retain the shape and …something about them, but I couldn’t explain how most people in my life look like to a sketch artist.
When I read a book, I kinda retain the “feeling” of the characters and maybe one or two visual traits. I can read thousands of pages of a character’s adventures and I can maybe tell you their general body type and clothing - if they have an “uniform” they tend to wear.
I’ve read all 5 books (over 5000 pages) of The Stormlight Archive and I couldn’t tell you what Kaladin (the main character) looks like. I have no visual recollection of his hair colour, eye colour, skin tone or body type.
It always baffled me when a movie adaptation of a book came out and people were really upset that the characters looked wrong. And I was just “… you remember what the people in books look like??”. It turns out they do.
Oh, and DEFINITELY no voice in my head. I’d get myself committed if I had someone talking to me in my brain.
Holy cow. This is possibly the best description of how I usually think I’ve ever encountered. It was actually a bit unnerving to read. Though I’ve always conceptualized it as “shapes” and “holes” rather than vectors.
The ability to near-instantly make connections between symptoms and cause for any given issue in a system I’m familiar with especially resonated. The best explanation I could give someone without stepping back and basically re-solving the whole thing from a standing start would be “the shapes fit together”.
It feels like I’m being asked how I knew a puzzle piece fit in a space, and for some reason “I looked at it and could see that it fit” is not a sufficient explanation. No, I didn’t need to investigate other possible pieces. They are obviously different shapes. The one that you’re asking about doesn’t even belong to the same puzzle.
Similarly I am also utterly incapable of describing what a person looks like in any detail. I have a “mind’s eye” and can conjure up images of them in my head, but for whatever reason I just completely lack the ability to express what I see in words outside of very high level details. They have brown hair, they’re tall, what do you mean “what shape is their face?” Sara’s face is the shape of Sara’s face. It couldn’t be any other shape.
I do have an internal monologue or voice though, but it’s not constant. It usually only comes up when I’m dealing with other people and need to try to reason through what someone else is doing.
This is a perfect representation of how my mind is laid out. Everything is a tree with things connected together by feelings/relations. Individual events are painful to keep track of (wife constantly tells me that we’ve already had conversations multiple times). Superfluous detail is lost immediately.
But how a certain function in code breaking can ripple to the whole system is as natural as I breathe. Random trivia facts too, since they were novel enough to connect at the cool thing to know node. What someone wore yesterday or where the ketchup is (I don’t eat ketchup) is just completely filtered out. Couldn’t describe peoples faces but I know them when I see them. 99% of those “celebrity lookalike” things look nothing like them and I get baffled how people can confuse them, but I’d assume it’s from them visualizing the celebrity with some error
For my own inner monologue, it often feels more like a preview or mirror than like hearing something external. Definitely English words, though I can also navigate nonverbal ideas in a similar sense to how you describe. The “essence” of the item, its database ID in a way.
Same with my inner audio sense: I can play things back I’ve heard several times and recall, like an old song, which is just a copy of how I heard it before (mostly). If it was a 90s mp3, it’ll still have whatever weird audio glitch crept in there during all the piracy. Can’t pick the elements apart, it’s just one layer.
No mind’s eye for me. Good spatial sense, though; it just isn’t tied to any feeling of sight. As for “imagining” an apple, I definitely don’t in any way see an apple. But there’s a part of the brain that, when you look at an apple, takes the incoming light analyzes it, and returns “Apple”. When I imagine the apple, I get that same return, the sense that I have just experienced or currently am experiencing an apple. Does my brain tell me I saw the toothy curves of the bottom of a red delicious? Yep. Did I see anything, anywhere, metaphorically or otherwise? Nope. All analysis, no pixels.
Your mind has an active visual cortex. Other folks think more using their audio cortex. Some more with somatic awareness (feeling tone).
Mathameticians can visualize math.
Everyone is wired a bit different.
I’m a two or a four on the scale, depending on how much weed I consume. As heavy weed use dulls the minds eye. Though irregular use can enhance it.
And after years working in kitchens, I can think in smells. I.e.mix spices in my mind and smell them in my head before adding to a dish.
And after years working in kitchens, I can think in smells. I.e.mix spices in my mind and smell them in my head before adding to a dish.
I’m that way with ice cream. I own an ice cream business that creates custom ice creams, and after many years, I can think of a a flavor combination, and sort of “taste it” in my mind.
I love ice cream, but I don’t eat it that often any more. If I have a craving, often just thinking about what flavor I’d have is satisfying enough, but I don’t really need to eat the ice cream.
I just did it as an experiment, and imagined a combo of honey, cinnamon, and cayenne pepper. My mouth watered, but after a moment of really concentrating on what that flavor would taste like, I felt fairly satisfied enough about experiencing the taste, that I don’t feel a need to actually eat the ice cream. I think my brain has trained itself to release ice cream endorphins based on the thought alone, and not the actual taste experience from my tongue, and that satisfies my craving.
I should write a diet book: “Think And Grow Thin.”
Just from that one flavor combo I now want to try all your ice creams 😂💜
Yeah, you do. Honey Cinnamon is my secret weapon.
I can make ice cream out of almost anything, but here are some of my favorites:
Peach Cinnamon
Bananas Foster (Banana, cinnamon, caramel)
Raspberry Chocolate Chip
Raspberry Brownie
Raspberry Nutella
Coffee Nutella
Salted Caramel with Candied Bacon
Almond Joy (Coconut, Almonds, and mini dark chocolate chips)
Mayan Chocolate (Cocoa powder, cinnamon, cayenne pepper)
The Honey Cinnamon is also great when it’s infused with Bourbon or Scotch. We also make our own homemade caramel, fudge, brownies, cookie dough, etc., all organic or natural as much as possible. All of our fruit ice creams are made with real fruit, no artificial sweeteners, flavors, or colors.
I literally make the best ice cream in the world, and have done events alongside Top Chef contenders and winners, including Richard Blais. Don’t you wish you had that mental tasting ability right now?
Oh, I can imagine well enough! They all sound amazing! I want to try chocolate pistachio honey, and blackberry vanilla 💜 Where is your shop? (If you can even tell me without doxxing yourself lol, please don’t dox yourself 😂)
I no longer have a retail shop, the 7 day a week grind got to be too much after a lot of years. I just do events now, colleges, weddings, corporate events, etc. all over the East Coast. It isn’t as creative, and I miss my regular customers, but I actually make a lot more money, with a LOT less work this way.
So if you want to try my ice cream some time, you’d have to hire me for a gig somewhere on the East Coast. Know anyone who is getting married? Or have a big corporate event coming up?
I do know someone getting married in December, but in Texas 😂
I’m glad you got your work/life balance more manageable now, that’s awesome!!!
I’d do it, but the travel charge would be significant.
They’ve done studies on dopamine with sugar. It’s not the eating it that’s satisfying, it’s the getting it. So most dopamine is released on the way to the mouth. Assuming you’ve had ice cream before and the neural pathways are laid.
Which is why the first bite is the best.
But yeah the mind has some plasticity. We can learn to be more visual or olfactory ‘thinkers’.
Makes sense. It’s why we have that Pavlovian response to just the promise of something tasty. It shouldn’t be surprising that the same effect that is making our mouths water, is also releasing endorphins in anticipation of the taste. Just thinking about it is pleasurable enough to release endorphins.
Some of us can even think without any senses.
I do have a hard time thinking without “listening” my own voice
Yeah I think everybody actually does, but the sense consciousnesses are a lot less subtle than stuff like intentions.
And even that last part can be let go of. What is beyond that is beyond conceptualization, but it’s not nothing. Nor is it something. As both are concepts.
No snark, but how do you test this?
Like I can picture an apple, but it’s not real, so how do I know if I’m a 1 or a 4?
If you think of how an apple looks and you get a visual representation, depending on how detailed it is. If not, you’re a 5.
I think the “test” is to describe a scene, then ask details that weren’t explicitly described, but would be necessary to fill in the gaps. It requires honesty (nothing to prevent 5s from making up answers post-hoc or 1s just feigning ignorance.)
If he see something with one eye but not the other, is it real?
Describe the apple you see in your imagination. Color? Texture? Shadows? Environment? Can you draw your image?
There is some flexibility here; I tend to have different levels (1-4) based with numbers scaling to how awake I am. (More awake = less detail)
I think it’s the amount of detail when you picture it. Can you rotate it, cut it, maybe take bite out of it?
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Did you try to think of a real apple but got a not real picture of it? Can you change it into some different thing? Can you change it to a realistic picture if you want?
#1 is really useful for 3d modeling. I can work out most of the details in my head, then put the final design into a computer to print.
I once managed to write an entire OpenSCAD model on paper. When I typed it into a computer (aside from a few syntax errors) the model was exactly as I wanted.
The advantages are very fast design iterations. The disadvantages are that I have to remember the entire final product and not confuse it with any previous iteration while writing it down; and that I have to actually write it down and not just assume that the 3d printer will start on its own.
I’m closer to 3 or 4 on OP’s scale, and that may explain why I have never been able to wrap my head around OpenSCAD.
I’ve settled on FreeCAD. It is visual enough that I don’t have to strain my brain too hard to imagine what my project might look like.
I do 3D modeling and design and I am a hard #5. Can’t see a thing unless I’m dreaming. But when I think about a part or machine I’m designing I do have an awareness of it in my head, but it’s like it is related to my proprioception (the awareness of where your body parts are) instead my vision. I can imagine the surfaces of what I’m thinking about, and how those surfaces will interact as things move, but can’t see them whatsoever.
I didn’t know real visualization and aphantasia were things until I was well over a decade into this career, haha.
I have severe 5 aphantasia. It was such a relief when a name was put to it.
Hahaha same! I started asking every person I know about it because I was so curious. Like, that can’t be real, you can’t see stuff. But everyone I know seems to have some level of actual visualization except me. And I am an okay artist, just need references and a lot of trial & error when drawing.
I don’t know how to explain it but mine is in constant flux.
I’ll bounce between full on 3d animated cutscenes to like “Old ass TRON style wireframes of the object”
Solid 5 here. And I love to read. I love the smell of books, I love the feeling in my hands and I love the stories of course. I don’t have an image of an character in my head, I don’t have an image if the landscape, but I still enjoy it.
I thought it was either 1 or you have aphantasia. Didn’t realize there was a range.
How many Au/ADHD can do this vs non-neurospicy? Just curious of there’s a difference or likeliness one way or another.
I can see and manipulate objects in my head. I can make up voices or objects in my head and “hear” them. I can remember a smell, but I couldn’t make one up - iow I could slice an imaginary apple and imagine the smell. I can feel an object’s texture without touching it.
I can’t imagine not having these things in my head.
Have taught Au/ADHD kids who range from one to five. I’m an ADHD one, but one of my favorite students is a total ADHD five.
Seems like it’s all over the place.
Adhd “levels”? A quick look around gets anywhere between three and seven levels of adhd depending on the website. Got a reference by a reputable org that lists what levels mean?
I assumed it was just the numbers on the image, not the level of ADHD. As in “a person with ADHD who matches with number 5 on the imagination scale in the OP”.
Ah, gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.
That is what I meant.
