This guy…

    • TipRing@lemmy.world
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      9 days ago

      That’s what my dad always told me when I was growing up as a brat; refusing to obey an illegal order isn’t a choice, it’s a requirement. You must not follow illegal orders, if you do you are committing a crime.

      • TranscendentalEmpire@lemmy.today
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        9 days ago

        Also a brat who spent around 16 years growing up on various military bases… The problem with this idea is the expectation that enlisted men are knowledgeable enough to recognize an illegal order, while simultaneously being stupid enough to put their necks on the line to refuse a direct order from an officer.

        In the military as an enlisted man, you are guilty until proven innocent. It would be easier to get off knowingly participating in a war crime than to knowingly refuse an illegal order.

        The idea that American servicemen are trained to recognize and refuse illegal order is a fallacy. My dad did 26 years as an enlisted man and eventually made chief, he will openly admit to having zero faith in the US military ability to do the right thing.

        • db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          8 days ago

          The rules are there to ensure the proles are the ones always getting the short end of the stick.

        • TipRing@lemmy.world
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          9 days ago

          Oh yeah, dad did say that he wasn’t taught anything like that until he went to OTS.

      • TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world
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        8 days ago

        I mean I’ve worked directly with ACLU lawyers on this matter, and have organized with the original members of the appeal for redress.

        I went so far as to organize this panel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HsrwIJcxYWY&t=529s

        Where we brought on lawyers, historians, other veterans, and political commentators, all of whom had specific experience (as in, had been involved in a military court in some manner) around the relationship around disobeying illegal orders.

        And yeah. I stand by the point I made. As a service member you are legally obligated to disobey illegal orders.