Donald Trump on Wednesday launched fresh vitriol against the judge and prosecuting attorney in his New York business fraud trial, carefully skirting a gag order imposed on him just a day prior.
Trump tried Tuesday to bully a court clerk, sharing false conspiracies about her as well as her personal information. Presiding Judge Arthur Engoron issued a gag order later that day prohibiting all parties involved in the case from publicly discussing court staff.
While Trump avoided mentioning court staff on Wednesday, he went all out with attacks against Engoron and New York Attorney General Letitia James.
“This is election interference. They made up a fake case, these fraudulent people,” Trump told reporters. “And the judge already knows what he’s gonna do. He’s a Democrat judge. In all fairness to him, he has no choice.… He’s run by the Democrats.”
I don’t know if it’d be considered legal under the constitution, but someone needs to issue a blanket gag order that basically says he’s not allowed to say anything to the public, directly or indirectly, until after his trials are over. Otherwise he’s going to keep finding loopholes that allow him to get past the gag order.
That would be a First Amendment violation, because it would also prohibit legal speech. The only way he’s not able to reach the public is if he’s in jail.
If he goes to jail - a justifiable sentence for continually violating gag orders - his minions will call that a First Amendment “Deep State” thing. And they might not be far from the truth.
It’s going to be really bad, the more he threatens people. It’s going to even worse if he goes to jail.
Edit: I wanted to add, “The only way he stops sending his threats is if he dies,” but that’s not even true.
If he dies of natural causes, or an accident, or by murder - doesn’t matter. His followers will blame their enemies, and they will act. There is no way this all ends with anything but violence. The only question is when, and how much.
Thing is… they’re gonna do what pumped up hate-fueled idiots always do, no matter how much factual reality differs from their oh-so-sacred claims. It doesn’t matter if this asshat lands in jail or at the bottom of an empty elevator shaft. They’re going to erupt in violence and will need to be put down in kind.
Just, yank the fuckin’ bandaid already, get this over with, FFS. Waiting doesn’t make it better for anyone.
And although there will be short-term pain with the MAGA folks committing terrorist acts in the name of Trump, long term it would hurt the movement.
Say Trump is thrown into prison for life tomorrow. Who leads the MAGA movement towards their goals? Who even tells them what their goals are? Rob DeSantis? At one point, maybe, but now it isn’t likely. Don Jr? Perhaps but he’s not his father. Vivek Ramaswamy? Maybe, but he doesn’t have the support.
The most likely outcome would be that MAGA fractures. You’d have Don Jr MAGA, DeSantis MAGA, Vivek MAGA, etc. Each MAGA group would insist that THEY are the successor to Trump MAGA and would fight amongst themselves to prove who is the true
ScotsmanMAGAman. The movement would be weakened as a result.That’s also what culling “the weak” could look like. You do realize that those among us who read for comprehension, think critically, and otherwise operate at what much of the world might consider a default level of intelligence have been underestimating the whole lot of these morons from the jump, right? What say we stop doing that, hmm?
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The keyword there is “violent”.
If they were just rambling on on Trump’s twitter-knockoff, then I’d agree with you. But we’ve seen January 6, along with several examples of lone wolves willing to act on their own. There’s a reason why virtually everybody involved with these cases have extra security detail and why these courtrooms continually go into virtual lockdown every time new charges are brought against Trump.
They might be idiots, but their bullets do just as much damage.
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a martyred Trump is a national nightmare.
Yeah, no, that is a direct violation of his 1st amendment rights. He knows he’s playing catch me if you can with the court and his mouth because the court can only gag very narrowly defined speech. For instance the court could say he can’t talk about pickles, so he talks about cucumbers soaked in a brine. The court tells him he cannot talk about cucumbers soaked in a brine. So he talks about a green vegetable roughly the size of a pickling cucumber that you then put into a mixture that contains seasonings, vinegar, etc. Will he eventually run out of ways to describe a pickle? Sure, but he’ll have wasted shitloads of the judge’s time and distracted from what was actually happening in court. And it’s working. Do you know anything about what has been presented so far in the case? You probably don’t because those articles don’t bring the clicks and views like stories about his latest shenanigans on social media.
My blood boils a little bit just seeing this behaviour described. Probably because it’s relatable kids behaviour.
Trump has said that his temperament hasn’t changed since he was in the first grade so it tracks that he uses the same tactics that little kids use.
The difference, of course, is that the little kids will grow out of this behavior. Trump won’t.
The judges in each case can issue a gag order against discussing anything and anyone pertaining to the case in public. That would be bulletproof and also constitutional.
The problem is enforcement. We both know that Trump wouldn’t be able to go 5 minutes without violating it. But then what?
Jail him? Congratulations, you made him a martyr. His poll numbers are going to skyrocket and his die-hard followers are going to interpret it as a call to action. You’ve hired a bunch of extra security for yourself , everyone on your team right down to the custodian, and their families, right? There’s a reason why nobody has been willing to do this yet. There’s a reason there are so many reports about lawmakers unwilling to remove Trump from office due to fears of retaliation. There’s also the optics that Trump already spins on the daily about jailing a political opponent, and the fact that he is the leading Republican candidate which, like it or not, is going to give him a lot of leeway as judges are loathed to curtail political speech.
Fine him? Objective reports say that the man has at least $400 million cash on hand. While his business isn’t nearly as valuable as he claims it is, he does have several billion dollars in assets around the world that can be tapped. Any fine would qualify as little more than a rounding error on his taxes, and any attempt to issue a fine that would actually impact him is almost guaranteed to be struck down on appeal as excessive. Fining him in an attempt to curb his behavior would be as effective as telling you I’m going to fine you about $1.79 if you don’t knock it off. The man just got slapped with a $5 million smack for sexually assaulting and defaming E. Jean Carroll, and was right back on the air less than 24 hours later saying even worse stuff. Monetary fines do nothing.
Keep warning him? How many times did your mom say “1…2…Two and a half…” before you realized that there is no 3? Same thing here.
Move the case up early? There are numerous legal, procedural, and logistical issues that would make this a non-starter. Numerous talking heads have written this off as an empty threat that would be impossible to actually enact, while giving Trump’s legal team grounds for appeal.
And before anyone says “So what are we supposed to do with him then? Just let him keep doing what he wants with impunity?”…that’s the exact question our entire judicial system is currently tasked with answering, and nobody seems to have come up with one yet. How do you handle someone who is hellbent on doing what he wants, but also has the resources and ability to force people to back down out of legitimate fear of retribution to themselves, their associates, and their families?
That’s what he and his cult already believe and will continue to believe no matter what happens or doesn’t happen.
Nah, he has more or less reached his ceiling. He has a number of people who are members of the cult and would never abandon him without literal cult deprogramming and the majority of the population would never vote for him after what he’s already said and done.
You mean like is already the case now that he’s slandering and vilifying most of them with no consequences to himself?
True, but not the one you think.
THAT’S the actual reason.
“Like it or not” is an awfully casual reaction to the powerful getting blatant special treatment, which is in itself against the law
The question is literally answered already. Letting him get away with constantly and blatantly breaking the law is in itself negligent bordering on being criminal.
This is what people said about him being impeached. Then it’s what they said about him being impeached the 2nd time. Then it’s what they said about him losing the election. Then about when he was indicted the first time. Then the 2nd. Then the third. Then the fourth. Notice a pattern yet?
Easy to say when you’re not the one putting yourself, your staff, and all your families directly at risk. Senators refused to oust him from office out of fear for their safety. Courtrooms shut down, sometimes for days, out of fear of retribution. People who have infinitely more resources and in many cases the power of the US government behind them, and they still refuse because of credible threats.
Actually, it is.
This is another reason, yes. But it is not the primary one. If this were the issue, it would be cleared up in appeals, pre-trial hearings, etc.
No, it’s an acknowledgement of the reality of the situation. Trump is the leading GOP candidate for POTUS, and judges are absolutely going to give him a lot of leeway in order to avoid the appearance of interfering with political speech. Whether they are right or wrong for doing so is certainly up for debate, but it’s absolutely going to happen.
Again, a very easy comment to say when you’re not the one standing directly in the line of fire. It’s much, much different when it’s your offices getting bomb threats, your kids’ pictures and identifying info being published online, and your family members who aren’t even involved receiving daily threats. And it’s also very easy to say that when the subject isn’t capable of summoning mobs of idiots, some of which are armed to the teeth and willing to commit violence.
Look, I’m not saying Trump should walk. I agree that someone needs to actually start using the tools available to put this guy away. The problem is that the process actually has to be started by an actual person, there doesn’t seem to be too many people willing to put their family’s safety at risk in order to pull the trigger, and its understandable why those in power who can pull the trigger are reluctant to do so.
That’s not really how the law works, and judges generally take a dim view when someone is trying to circumvent their order.