He may as well have a neon sign saying “I’m not fit”, yet dumb motherfuckers will still vote for him.

Unrelated, but nice username

The spoiler effect is a geometric problem within FPTP voting systems, it has nothing to do with weak stances/lack of common interests of a given candidate.

FPTP systems can hardly be called democracy. Like it or not, the spoiler effect is the problem here.

The spoiler effect is a geometric problem, a problem of the relative positions of candidates. It has nothing to do with how strong or good of a candidate someone is.

This is just an ad hominem.

We should absolutely be working on both. But the genocide of palestinians is definitely the easier one to effect at the moment.

.ml has 50k users, and hexbear has 27k.

Assuming every single one of those people side with Palestinians and also the CCP, and are also not bots or duplicate accounts(which is absolutely not the case), that’s only 77k. Or 2.5% of the population of the U.S.

That’s very few people like I said.

And if you only go off of active users in the last 6 months(which we should given that lots of people will have made accounts, then later left due to disagreement or lack of interest), it’s only around 8k people. So again, very few people.

The difference is, western nations aren’t giving China billions of dollars for the express purpose of bombing uyghur civilians. There is still the issue of continuing trade, but then you’re getting into a game of passing the buck. The people blame the politicians who blame the corps who blame the people. Nobody wants to be the first to take responsibility for it.

I think you’ll find very few people who are against Israel’s actions but support China’s actions.

Weird

Yeah, the actual calculation still needs to be done right, but having it as an ‘automated’ process will help reduce this sort of bullshit:

Yeah thanks for the cordial discussion.

Of course. It’s always nice to have a polite discussion. It’s hard to have them, especially in an election year.

And again, I agree with everything you said.

where instead they should be explaining to their out-of-touch aunts and uncles

I agree, though the individual strategy there is very case by case basis. I know for me, personally, my parents wouldn’t change their mind ever. I could show them gorey picture after gorey picture sandwiched with mass graves, and they’d be unphased.

It’s a tough situation when your family is so stubborn.

I agree with pretty much you’ve said. Though I do want to add on to something.

Thus, if you want to see continued evolution on this issue by the administration/campaign, you have to first influence the polls. So go on social media and argue with everyone you can sincerely and bring the brutal reality to the American people.

I’ve taken a similar-ish strategy to this. The Biden campaign and then the Kamala campaign has been emailing me like 8 times a day every day asking for campaign contributions. And every single time I respond back with imagery of the brutality that is being enacted upon palestinians. Unsurprisingly they haven’t responded to a single one. I’m probably just sending shit to their spam folder.

But yeah, public opinion needs to shift on this. And I think it will, though it’s gonna be a few decades. You may already be familiar with this, but there is a common pattern in student/young adult lead protests, and social rights focused protests, is that in that a few decades after the protests, it turns out that public perception is retroactively on their side.

This happened with the civil rights movement, vietnam, we’ve seen this with LGBT rights, etc.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Student_protests_in_the_United_States

Take a look at these, and most of them are now popularly supported, especially the older they are.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/UC_Davis_pepper_spray_incident

This one in particular is only a decade old at this point, and the imagery behind this did far more for than any individual protest ever could have done.

So I think eventually the pro palestinian student lead protests will have an effect and be seen as the right side of history. Unfortunately it’s gonna take a long while, and in the meanwhile a lot of palestinians are gonna die. So all we can do is try to speed up that process of changing public perception.

Minimum wage should have been tied automatically to inflation rates. Even if it gets increased, 30 years from now we’ll be in the exact same boat.

I think we agree on the meat of the matter

Definitely.

but then also recognize why they can’t do these things;

It’s a no win situation after all.

so within the framework of what they can and cannot do, are they not doing everything they strategically can do without jeopardizing the bigger picture of the election?

Sure, that is what they’re trying to do. But the problem is that there is always going to be another election. They’ll always have motivation to not rock the boat on this. I don’t think there is any reason to hope they’ll change their behavior in February.

A good example of this is the democrat convention:

https://www.axios.com/2024/08/22/dnc-palestinian-american-speech-denied

They had an israeli speak at the convention, but when they were pressured to allow a palestinian to speak, they said no. Now I know the DNC/the people who run it and Kamala/Tim and the people that run their campaign are different. But I think this is a window into their psyche. It wouldn’t have cost them the election to have a palestinian speak, let alone a palestinian doctor like they were asking.

So if they can’t even do the right thing when it won’t cost them an election, why is it going to be any different in February? Sure, AIPAC would most likelt throw a fit over it, but enough to throw the election? Probably not.

Leftists associating Biden and Harris with genocide ahead of the pivotal election is effectively shooting ourselves, and Gazans, in the foot.

I partially agree with you here. Yes, a lot of leftists are being short sighted and arrogant about this. But they have good reason to protest, because after all, our tax money is going towards turning palestinians into red mist.

Oh I agree that they’re in a no win situation. I’ve been aware of that and never in denial.

But to say they’ve been trying hard for a ceasefire fire is misleading at best. That’s the part I disagree with you on.

There is no convincing Bibi, that’s been made clear. He is perpetuating this situation for his own power, and the land he wants to seize. The only thing that’s gonna put a stop to it from our end is embargoes and sanctions, and even then that’s only ever going to do so much.

Pretty obvious they’ve been trying heavily to get a permanent ceasefire.

Trying would have been ending the weapons deals, applying sanctions, etc.

I mean, what, do you actually believe Harris and Biden want to be associated with and commit genocide?

No, I don’t think they do. But I also think their campaign managers are looking at the number of “we stand with israel” signs in people’s yards (among other things obv) and they’re realizing that taking a hard stance against Israel’s genocide of palestinians would lose them too many votes.

So they’re skidish about doing the right thing, and taking a half assed approach of trying to negotiate with a dude who’s doing a genocide.

I haven’t been making any posts about it, only comments, and even then fairly rarely. Maybe once a month or two. I haven’t said or implied any hatred for Israel’s people. If you can’t even be honest about what I’m saying, the rate at which I am saying it, etc, who are you trying to fool?

And lastly I’ll take your lack of condemnation of Israel’s actions after being explicitly prompted to as support for their actions, as support for their genocide or palestinians. So much for the whole “jUsT SOmEoNE thaT THinks AnyoNE tHAt DiSAGREes ON AnyThING WIth THem muST suPPoRt genoCIde”

but also supports an immediate permanent ceasefire.

Talk is cheap. And as you said, they’re continuing to provide weapons. Not much of an effort to prevent genocide.

Maybe don’t use the phrases “gaza brained people” and “propaganda” as a description if you don’t want people to think you’re siding with israel.

Feel free to confirm that you don’t support israel/support an end to the genocide.