Though the Uncommitted movement is lobbying to get a Palestinian American on the main stage, the Harris campaign has not yet approved one. Will there be a change before Thursday—and does the Democratic party want that?
Note that only 60% say that even a hard shift on Israeli policy would have made them more likely to support Biden. If you could say with confidence that we wouldn’t lose more pro-Israeli votes from American moderates than what we could gain, then this calculus might become different.
Regarding genocides in your other reply, yes, unfortunately we have historically contributed to some, though admittedly none of those and none in recent history except for Gaza and the West Bank. Israel is not the first US ally to take an overly brutal and inhumane stance with local affairs though. Unfortunately our allies are our allies. We have dozens across the globe, and we do historically tend to support them even when we shouldn’t, when war comes to their lands.
I’m fully in favor of pro-Palestinian voices being heard, but when you sometimes act like a moral high ground somehow gives you a unique license to have your issues be front and center ahead of others, you’re more trouble than you’re worth. Interrupting speeches with chants and commiting vandalism at what should be peace protests are examples of this.
The big tent party literally cannot contain all parties, it’s just not possible, no party can do that. Each deserves as much voice as it has number of supporters it can bring, and that puts anti-genocide voices somewhere around climate activists and gun control supporters. You’re not the only ones with children dying, you see. We have everyone’s futures to worry about, and that even includes Israelis too, whether we like it or not since hamas spectacularly escalated this to open warfare.
Each deserves as much voice as it has number of supporters it can bring, and that puts anti-genocide voices somewhere around climate activists and gun control supporters. You’re not the only ones with children dying, you see. We have everyone’s futures to worry about
Behold the Democrats and their inspiring message of “calm down, genocide isn’t that big of a deal”.
If everything around you is always inspiring, it is an excellent sign someone is feeding you horse shit. Real life has difficult parts, that’s all there is to it.
Genocide is one issue. That’s it. It can be someone’s primary issue, that’s fine, but expecting it to be a primary issue of the party is silly. In case you’ve forgotten, we’ve committed more genocides than we’ve stopped. By far. Unfortunately, Americans just aren’t that against it. And we get self-rule, you see, where we are not ruled by holy principles, but the will of the masses. If the masses are cool with genocide, guess what happens?
So what you really need to do, is grassroots engagement, getting out there and appealing to some suburban white folks. But door knocking is too much work I think.
If you don’t think genocide is a dealbreaker, then you lose all rights to criticize republicans for thinking racism and sexism and homophobia aren’t dealbreakers for their candidate.
You’re trying to argue the Trolley Problem but missing the controversy of WHY the trolley problem is problematic in the first place. If I vote for an alternative to Trump, and she kills people in my community, then I have a share of their blood on my hands. “Less blood” is not a comfort or excuse.
I agree, it is not a comfort or an excuse, as is often the case in global politics. It’s merely a necessity if we are to save any of the Palestinian people.
Fundamentally it is impossible to save them all without beginning hostile action against Israel, they are being starved after all. Yet if we withdrew completely, it would merely remove yet another roadblock standing in Netanyahu’s path towards his goals.
It’s merely a necessity if we are to save any of the Palestinian people.
History is littered with people who made that claim. There were Jews who thought that cooperating with Nazis would save some of their community. Black Americans who thought that working with Jim Crow politicians would make a net benefit. It’s wrong, you’re wrong, and Palestinians will tell you they’ve tried this and failed. Abbas offered to go to war against Hamas and did so, in the hopes that Israel would advance his two state solution. They abandoned him and all Palestinians are worse off for the attempt.
Would their fates have been any different if the PA and hamas were united in hamas’ goals?
Would Jews that tried to fight back against Hitler have saved any Jewish lives?
In the Jim Crow example, at least the racist politicians had a significant opposition to their policies in the Reconstruction Era, leaving realistic alternative options. We cannot say the same with your other two examples.
The world is simply uglier than always being able to defeat bad things by outright fighting them. Sometimes you have to scheme and manipulate, the situation the Palestinians have been in. Sometimes you just have to flee and admit the battle is lost, so you survive to fight another day, the situation the Jews under Hitler were in.
So you say it’s a Big Tent party for everyone but can’t accommodate Palestinians. Got it. Yet somehow there’s room for unconditional support for Israeli extremism allowed in that very tent.
You’re not the only ones with children dying, you see.
There’s that condescension again. So you’re fine with selling out Palestinian lives because your personal interests outweigh those of your neighbors. Very nice.
Just admit it, Dems are willing to stick up for unpopular minorities like Trans people but Dem politicians can’t bring themselves to be seen in public with Arabs or Muslims.
The problem is you tend to act like conservatives, you don’t seem to share any of our values. You’re only dem because the repubs hate you and want you all dead, and we don’t. You do not seem to share our values though, you’re willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals and that is antithetical to us.
If you could acknowledge nuance and admit to your own wrongdoing in the Middle East, and not spout lies like “we always support democrats” just because it’s convenient to you, this might change. But if you act like republicans, you’re going to struggle in our tent. It has nothing to do with your ethnicity or religion, just your atrocious behavior. If you want less condescension, speak and act with honor. Acknowledge complexity and nuance, own up to it when you do something wrong instead of always trying to be the victim, just like they do.
And there’s the racism and Islamophobia coming out. Don’t share any of your values? How out of touch with the community are you? Majority of American Muslims believe in LGBT rights in polling and support abortion. We talk with plenty of nuance, which you’d know if you ever bothered to listen even once to our community, let alone the last 10 months where we were told to shut up because our mere existence somehow hurt Biden, who made his campaign detour around our communities and refused to be seen in public with us. This despite we were reliable donors to his campaign and celebrated that we got him elected by a narrow margin.
I don’t have time to debunk your false stereotypes. You pretend to care about the plight and then go giving insults immediately after. Go talk with Muslims and Arab-Americans rather than talk about us and Othering us.
No, you haven’t been one of the most pro-Democratic communities in America, not even close.
https://www.aaiusa.org/library/what-polls-can-teach-us-about-arab-american-voters-in-2024
Note that only 60% say that even a hard shift on Israeli policy would have made them more likely to support Biden. If you could say with confidence that we wouldn’t lose more pro-Israeli votes from American moderates than what we could gain, then this calculus might become different.
Regarding genocides in your other reply, yes, unfortunately we have historically contributed to some, though admittedly none of those and none in recent history except for Gaza and the West Bank. Israel is not the first US ally to take an overly brutal and inhumane stance with local affairs though. Unfortunately our allies are our allies. We have dozens across the globe, and we do historically tend to support them even when we shouldn’t, when war comes to their lands.
I’m fully in favor of pro-Palestinian voices being heard, but when you sometimes act like a moral high ground somehow gives you a unique license to have your issues be front and center ahead of others, you’re more trouble than you’re worth. Interrupting speeches with chants and commiting vandalism at what should be peace protests are examples of this.
The big tent party literally cannot contain all parties, it’s just not possible, no party can do that. Each deserves as much voice as it has number of supporters it can bring, and that puts anti-genocide voices somewhere around climate activists and gun control supporters. You’re not the only ones with children dying, you see. We have everyone’s futures to worry about, and that even includes Israelis too, whether we like it or not since hamas spectacularly escalated this to open warfare.
Behold the Democrats and their inspiring message of “calm down, genocide isn’t that big of a deal”.
If everything around you is always inspiring, it is an excellent sign someone is feeding you horse shit. Real life has difficult parts, that’s all there is to it.
Genocide is one issue. That’s it. It can be someone’s primary issue, that’s fine, but expecting it to be a primary issue of the party is silly. In case you’ve forgotten, we’ve committed more genocides than we’ve stopped. By far. Unfortunately, Americans just aren’t that against it. And we get self-rule, you see, where we are not ruled by holy principles, but the will of the masses. If the masses are cool with genocide, guess what happens?
So what you really need to do, is grassroots engagement, getting out there and appealing to some suburban white folks. But door knocking is too much work I think.
If you don’t think genocide is a dealbreaker, then you lose all rights to criticize republicans for thinking racism and sexism and homophobia aren’t dealbreakers for their candidate.
Life is not a simple enough thing for absolutes, unfortunately, that just results in greater and greater failure. It’s a luxury we cannot afford.
edit: You could look at it this way: If we vote in Trump instead, will there be less genocide or more genocide?
You’re trying to argue the Trolley Problem but missing the controversy of WHY the trolley problem is problematic in the first place. If I vote for an alternative to Trump, and she kills people in my community, then I have a share of their blood on my hands. “Less blood” is not a comfort or excuse.
I agree, it is not a comfort or an excuse, as is often the case in global politics. It’s merely a necessity if we are to save any of the Palestinian people.
Fundamentally it is impossible to save them all without beginning hostile action against Israel, they are being starved after all. Yet if we withdrew completely, it would merely remove yet another roadblock standing in Netanyahu’s path towards his goals.
History is littered with people who made that claim. There were Jews who thought that cooperating with Nazis would save some of their community. Black Americans who thought that working with Jim Crow politicians would make a net benefit. It’s wrong, you’re wrong, and Palestinians will tell you they’ve tried this and failed. Abbas offered to go to war against Hamas and did so, in the hopes that Israel would advance his two state solution. They abandoned him and all Palestinians are worse off for the attempt.
Would their fates have been any different if the PA and hamas were united in hamas’ goals?
Would Jews that tried to fight back against Hitler have saved any Jewish lives?
In the Jim Crow example, at least the racist politicians had a significant opposition to their policies in the Reconstruction Era, leaving realistic alternative options. We cannot say the same with your other two examples.
The world is simply uglier than always being able to defeat bad things by outright fighting them. Sometimes you have to scheme and manipulate, the situation the Palestinians have been in. Sometimes you just have to flee and admit the battle is lost, so you survive to fight another day, the situation the Jews under Hitler were in.
So you say it’s a Big Tent party for everyone but can’t accommodate Palestinians. Got it. Yet somehow there’s room for unconditional support for Israeli extremism allowed in that very tent.
There’s that condescension again. So you’re fine with selling out Palestinian lives because your personal interests outweigh those of your neighbors. Very nice.
Just admit it, Dems are willing to stick up for unpopular minorities like Trans people but Dem politicians can’t bring themselves to be seen in public with Arabs or Muslims.
The problem is you tend to act like conservatives, you don’t seem to share any of our values. You’re only dem because the repubs hate you and want you all dead, and we don’t. You do not seem to share our values though, you’re willing to do whatever it takes to achieve your goals and that is antithetical to us.
If you could acknowledge nuance and admit to your own wrongdoing in the Middle East, and not spout lies like “we always support democrats” just because it’s convenient to you, this might change. But if you act like republicans, you’re going to struggle in our tent. It has nothing to do with your ethnicity or religion, just your atrocious behavior. If you want less condescension, speak and act with honor. Acknowledge complexity and nuance, own up to it when you do something wrong instead of always trying to be the victim, just like they do.
And there’s the racism and Islamophobia coming out. Don’t share any of your values? How out of touch with the community are you? Majority of American Muslims believe in LGBT rights in polling and support abortion. We talk with plenty of nuance, which you’d know if you ever bothered to listen even once to our community, let alone the last 10 months where we were told to shut up because our mere existence somehow hurt Biden, who made his campaign detour around our communities and refused to be seen in public with us. This despite we were reliable donors to his campaign and celebrated that we got him elected by a narrow margin.
I don’t have time to debunk your false stereotypes. You pretend to care about the plight and then go giving insults immediately after. Go talk with Muslims and Arab-Americans rather than talk about us and Othering us.