Do you really think wages would go up if foreign workers weren’t hired? Why would they? What reason would companies have? If everyone pays shit, employees don’t really have the choice of finding a better job regardless of who is being hired.
It seems to me that if you’re worried about people not getting paid enough, then you should be fighting for higher wages, not less immigration.
But immigrants sure are a convenient scapegoat for those corporations, aren’t they?
If there’s less supply of workforce, workers are in a better position to demand better conditions or wages. Oversupply of workforce gives employers more power in turn.
More immigrants - or anything that balloons the workforce - helps the side of employers, even without considering the fact that most immigrants are satisfied with worse conditions and/or lower pay than western workers.
Not really, it’s something I’ve lived through already before.
When the USSR collapsed, most of our industry imploded virtually overnight. Demand for work disappeared, and so did wages and worker rights; you are in no position to bargain when there’s a line of people to replace anyone at the drop of a hat.
Then we joined the EU and the problem slowly fixed itself by… emigration! A LOT of people left to work in Germany and the UK, making the workforce scarce (=reducing supply). And let me tell you, it’s a lot easier to negotiate with employers when people are hard to replace.
But go on, explain to me how bringing in a cheap workforce will improve the locals bargaining position on the job market.
The USSR? Where there weren’t private corporations? How does that at all apply in a capitalist system?
And what I am explaining to you is that you are blaming immigrants when you should be blaming greedy corporations. You seem to think they will have your back if the borders are closed. They won’t. That’s not how capitalism works.
They weren’t private but the management wasn’t aby less shitty. And the moment the old system collapsed they turned even worse.
Also not sure how you came to the conclusion I think corporations would ‘have my back’. I literally explained they’ll only negotiate with workers as long as workers are not too expendable. It doesn’t matter what makes workers expendable - societal changes, AI, immigration - the workers positon will worsen and corps will push against their rights.
Why do you think our govt is importing hundreds of thousands of workers from Asia? To push the wages down and be able to loosen worker rights. Because as long as the worker is replaceable - oversupply, if you will - they aren’t in much position to push any demands.
As long as there isn’t enough people waiting on jobs to easy replace someone, there is room for negation because if the guy packs up, the work won’t be done and no money is made.
Sure, the company can pack up shop and relocate to a different country, but that also has a bunch of costs in itself. It may be more profitable to pay people slightly more - again, negotiation. But again, that is only possible if it isn’t easier to just quickly hire someone else.
You don’t need to believe me, just check how the average hungarian wage increased in the last 20 years. That’s the effect when there aren’t enough surplus workers, so employed people can’t be easily replaced.
So your country has such a tiny population as so few people unemployed that if they banned all immigrants, corporations would not have enough employees to make profits and wouldn’t finds some place to be more profitable if that’s the case?
Because you’re right, I don’t believe you. Since that is not how anything works.
Do you really think wages would go up if foreign workers weren’t hired? Why would they? What reason would companies have? If everyone pays shit, employees don’t really have the choice of finding a better job regardless of who is being hired.
It seems to me that if you’re worried about people not getting paid enough, then you should be fighting for higher wages, not less immigration.
But immigrants sure are a convenient scapegoat for those corporations, aren’t they?
Supply and demand.
If there’s less supply of workforce, workers are in a better position to demand better conditions or wages. Oversupply of workforce gives employers more power in turn.
More immigrants - or anything that balloons the workforce - helps the side of employers, even without considering the fact that most immigrants are satisfied with worse conditions and/or lower pay than western workers.
Like I said- convenient scapegoat you’re making of immigrants on behalf of those corporations.
Not really, it’s something I’ve lived through already before.
When the USSR collapsed, most of our industry imploded virtually overnight. Demand for work disappeared, and so did wages and worker rights; you are in no position to bargain when there’s a line of people to replace anyone at the drop of a hat.
Then we joined the EU and the problem slowly fixed itself by… emigration! A LOT of people left to work in Germany and the UK, making the workforce scarce (=reducing supply). And let me tell you, it’s a lot easier to negotiate with employers when people are hard to replace.
But go on, explain to me how bringing in a cheap workforce will improve the locals bargaining position on the job market.
The USSR? Where there weren’t private corporations? How does that at all apply in a capitalist system?
And what I am explaining to you is that you are blaming immigrants when you should be blaming greedy corporations. You seem to think they will have your back if the borders are closed. They won’t. That’s not how capitalism works.
They weren’t private but the management wasn’t aby less shitty. And the moment the old system collapsed they turned even worse.
Also not sure how you came to the conclusion I think corporations would ‘have my back’. I literally explained they’ll only negotiate with workers as long as workers are not too expendable. It doesn’t matter what makes workers expendable - societal changes, AI, immigration - the workers positon will worsen and corps will push against their rights.
Why do you think our govt is importing hundreds of thousands of workers from Asia? To push the wages down and be able to loosen worker rights. Because as long as the worker is replaceable - oversupply, if you will - they aren’t in much position to push any demands.
Yes, you think they’ll negotiate with you.
They won’t.
They don’t care about you, they care about making money. If they pay you more, they make less money.
You think they’ll pay you more if there are no immigrants. They have no reason to. They don’t like you more than they like foreigners.
As long as there isn’t enough people waiting on jobs to easy replace someone, there is room for negation because if the guy packs up, the work won’t be done and no money is made.
Sure, the company can pack up shop and relocate to a different country, but that also has a bunch of costs in itself. It may be more profitable to pay people slightly more - again, negotiation. But again, that is only possible if it isn’t easier to just quickly hire someone else.
You don’t need to believe me, just check how the average hungarian wage increased in the last 20 years. That’s the effect when there aren’t enough surplus workers, so employed people can’t be easily replaced.
So your country has such a tiny population as so few people unemployed that if they banned all immigrants, corporations would not have enough employees to make profits and wouldn’t finds some place to be more profitable if that’s the case?
Because you’re right, I don’t believe you. Since that is not how anything works.