Update:
The comments from this post will not be removed as to preserve the discussion around the announcement. Any continued discussions outside of this thread that violate server rules will be removed. We feel that everyone that has an opinion, and wanted to vent, has been heard.
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Original post:
Yesterday, we received information about the planned federation by Hexbear. The announcement thread can be found here: https://www.hexbear.net/post/280770. After reviewing the thread and the comments, it became evident that allowing Hexbear to federate would violate our rules.
Our code of conduct and server rules can be found here.
The announcement included several concerning statements, as highlighted below:
- “Please try to keep the dirtbag lib-dunking to hexbear itself. Do not follow the Chapo Rules of Posting, instead try to engage utilizing informed rhetoric with sources to dismantle western propaganda. Posting the western atrocity propaganda and pig poop balls is hilarious but will pretty quickly get you banned and if enough of us do it defederated.”
- “The West’s role in the world, through organizations such as NATO, the IMF, and the World Bank - among many others - are deeply harmful to the billions of people living both inside and outside of their imperial core.”
- “These organizations constitute the modern imperial order, with the United States at its heart - we are not fooled by the term “rules-based international order.” It is in the Left’s interest for these organizations to be demolished. When and how this will occur, and what precisely comes after, is the cause of great debate and discussion on this site, but it is necessary for a better world.”
The rhetoric and goal of Hexbar are clear based on their announcement: to “dismantle western propaganda” and "demolish organizations such as NATO” shows that Hexbar has no intention of "respecting the rules of the community instance in which they are posting/commenting.” It’s to push their beliefs and ideology.
In addition, several comments from a Hexbear admin, demonstrate that instance rules will not be respected.
Here are some examples:
“I can assure you there will be no lemmygrad brigades, that energy would be better funneled into the current war against liberalism on the wider fediverse.”
“All loyal, honest, active and upright Communists must unite to oppose the liberal tendencies shown by certain people among us, and set them on the right path. This is one of the tasks on our ideological front.”
- https://lemmy.world/comment/121850
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1487168
- https://lemmy.world/comment/1476084
- https://lemmy.world/comment/171595
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3648500
Overall community comments:
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526128
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3526086
- https://www.hexbear.net/comment/3652828
To clarify, for those who have inquired about why Hexbear versus Lemmygrad, it should be noted that we are currently exploring the possibility of defederating from Lemmygrad as well based on similar comments Hexbear has made.
- https://lemmygrad.ml/post/158656
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/882559
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/540170
- https://lemmygrad.ml/comment/446529
Defederation should only be considered as a last resort. However, based on their comments and behavior, no positive outcomes can be expected.
We made the decision to preemptively defederate from Hexbear for these reasons. While we understand that not everyone may agree with our decision, we believe it is important to prioritize the best interests of our community.
Not in favour of this.
I chose Lemmy.world because I wanted an instance that would federate even with people I might disagree with. If it’s illegal and abusive, sure. But to defederate on ideological grounds? I was planning a recurring donation but this makes me consider setting up my own instance.
They’re welcome to whatever discussions they want to have on their instance. As long as they respect the rules of other instances when they’re here, then everybody wins.
As for their point about dismantling western propaganda - if they have documented sources then let’s have a conversation. It’s not like there isn’t western propaganda
I like your take a lot. It also sounds like lemm.ee might align with your wanted policies, if you don’t want to selfhost.
Hm, they’ve pre-emptively blocked threads.net. But yea the list is shorter
Well, it’s their instance, they can do what they want with it. You should definitely save your $ and setup your own instance so you can federate with whatever you want.
Fuck that, I spend enough time arguing with ignorant uneducated fuckwits on the Internet without being exposed to a hive of wilful stupidity.
Then make your own instance and turn it into a safety bubble just for you. Don’t ruin it for everyone else.
Don’t like that we don’t want you here? Then make your own instance and turn it into a safety bubble just for you. Don’t ruin it for everyone else.
You’re the one that doesn’t want to see us. I’m more than fine with seeing you.
And I’m more than fine to tell you that I don’t want to see you, doesn’t mean I have a problem insulting your beligerence and stupidity, just that I prefer not to, but if you have a problem hearing that you know where the door is.
Hi there, potential new friend! Since these folks are willfully stupid, can I assume you’re familiar with their positions and background, and have read my books? Which one is your favorite?
Yes, they’re so wilfully stupid that they limit their understanding of social development to what they can dredge out of history and apply idealisms to reality with the willingness of authoritarians.
Marxism is a materialist philosophy, it is specifically anti-idealism. I suspect this is a case of a person that does not understand what idealism actually means in this context though so I’ll help out with a very simplified explanation:
Idealism = the belief that human beings control their environment through the use of ideas. That humans have ideas, and then use those ideas to impact their environment.
Materialism = the belief that human beings get their ideas from the material conditions that they find themselves in. That it is actually the environment that human beings exist in that gives them their ideas.
Marxism is a fundamentally a materialist philosophy. Its key thinkers were viciously anti-idealism and sought to ground marxist analysis in scientific analysis, hence the nickname “the immortal science”. Liberalism on the other hand holds idealism as its core tenet and believes that if you just get enough people to change their ideas you can create change. Hence why many liberals think you can just convince the rich to go completely against their material interests with discussion rather than understanding that they hold their ideas because they are the rich, because of the material conditions they have that differ from the working class.
Idealisms in this case is referring to the attempted application of one’s ideals, not the philosophy of idealism. Materialism is a Marxist ideal for example.
If self awareness was a disease you’d be the healthiest person alive. Funny how you tried to throw your pseudo intellectual weight around but missed the first important step of ensuring you had adequate cognizance of the message you were responding to.
Asking a simple question about my use of idealism, or for that matter having more than passing grasp of English, would have clued you onto your misinterpretation.
If you had you’d have saved yourself a lot of keystrokes.
And this conversation right here is why it’s a good thing we defederate.
Conversations like this are weaponized by groups like them. It’s not a good faith attempt at reaching common ground. It’s pigeonholing arguments for dunks and upvotes in an effort to destabilize the more unified conversations that are organically arising.
Pseudo-leftist like you tankies do not belong here or anywhere else. Go back to your wannabe-commie instance. While you are defending imperialism over there, we will be here having our fun - in reality
That has fuck all to do with idealism or materialism.
You said yes but didn’t answer my question! You’ve read my books? Which is your favorite?
Grow the fuck up. Carl Marks isn’t an author. You’re not Karl Marx, he is very dead. They’re not your books, and no one came here to have that conversation. Go somewhere else. I heard hexbear is neat.
Excuse me, officer. I’d like you to arrest this person for JESTING in my thread.
Comedy is hard. I suggest trying another thing.
Sorry but I just learned that sarcasm and jokes are disingenuous so I think I’m gonna spend my time getting upset about things I’ve never tried to understand instead.
This is not your thread. Get fucked.
It’s 100% my thread, lol. Nothing even remotely threatening, just tantrums and liberals telling on themselves. And all I have to do is ask nicely whether someone has read the basics to have their opinions. The answer is always no, because having opinions is clearly much more valuable than doing anything to earn them.
This works out great for me.
You haven’t written any, there’s a fellow by the name of Karl Marx that has a few, and he’d be an intellectually engaging enough fellow to converse with.
But you? You are but a pathetic wannabe facsimile with no purpose beyond a poor attempt at humerous, though disingenuous, engagement.
It sounds like you get the dumb joke that is my username. Congratulations! With that in mind, perhaps you’d like to take a third try at answering a simple and relevant question?
Have you read Karl Marx’s books? Which is your favorite?
Do you practice being this stupid or does it come naturally?
Is reading scary?
Given their outings, I don’t think you can expect them ye respect other instances’ rules. That will give mods a very hard time, which makes effective hosting of lemmy.world an issue. That’s not a good thing.