Tank shells. Against an adversary that doesn’t have tanks.
They classified encryption as a munition so now they can just classify journalists as a tank. Problem solved.
Tanks are mobile artillery. They’re not only designed for fighting other tanks.
What you’re talking about is a self-propelled gun. An SPG is not an MBT. That’s like saying a Baja trophy truck is the same as a McLaren Le Mans endurance prototype are the same because they both have 4 wheels and are fast.
You can use a tank as indirect fire support, but that is absolutely not what they are designed to do, and they aren’t nearly as good at it as dedicated platforms.
And moreover, Israel is fighting in urban environments. Urban environments eat tanks alive. This is stupid on multiple logistical, geopolitical, and ethical levels.
Artillery isn’t only indirect fires the category of direct fire artillery exists. Tanks only get eaten alive in urban environments when they’re poorly supported. The US has used tanks in urban areas from Hue to Baghdad without problems.
Tanks’ primary role is infantry support and for that job they have a big gun. You know what’s useful when there’s a bunch of guys holed up in a city building, firing at you? A really big gun you can point directly at them and give them hell.
Tanks are direct fire support. Israel has been effectively using tanks in Gaza for years.
This is a super weird fight to pick.
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and palestine
Now do Ukraine.
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What’s the emergency, is Russia invading Israel next?
Israel is currently at war.
“War” isn’t really a fitting word for committing genocide against unarmed civilians for being the wrong ethno-religious group on land you intend to steal.
Regardless of your feelings, they literally declared war, so yes it is the correct word.
I mean I’ve declared war on a plate of lasagna before but nobody should sell me tank shells because of it.
Did the lasagna surrender?
I don’t believe you have the international authority to have your declaration recognized as a formal act of war, though.
Do you work for the IDF?
No I just know how words work
And still look stupid. An achievement.
Clearly, you don’t.
What’s ironic about this is that I’m making factual statements (using words correctly) and you are arguing that your figurative use of language, applied because you have strong feelings about the conflict, is somehow more correct.
Consider how silly that makes you look.
There’s been a lot of posts about Palestinians and Muslims seriously arguing sitting out the next presidential election. To all the ppl who constantly argue how stupid and reactionary doing so is, what exactly are they suppose to do?
Simply vote for the man who is actively supplying the weapons to kill your family/kill ppl just like you because Trump is a giant bigot? Thankfully i don’t have to make such a decision but I wouldn’t blame anyone (especially the family of a dead relative bombed by Israel) to sit this next election out.
For Muslims and Palestinians this next election is a Murderer vs a Murdering racist
“Instead of voting for the guy who’s going to support this shitty country which is on the verge of genocide, I’m going to effectively cast a vote for the guy who’s going to support that shitty country and encourage them to commit genocide, in addition to pursuing genocide and the dismantling of democracy here at home.”
For Muslims and Palestinians this next election is a Murderer vs a Murdering racist
If “supports terrible country” is enough to make a president a murderer, then there hasn’t been a non-murderer president in the history of our country, and, quite possible, in the history of any country of note or significance.
Careful. You’re saying the quiet part outloud.
Simply vote for the man who is actively supplying the weapons to kill your family/kill ppl just like you because Trump is a giant bigot and would do the exact same if not worse?
FTFY.
But to answer your question, yes. In America 99.99% of the time we have to vote for the fractionally lesser of two evils and Biden is that. Not voting IS voting for Trump. It is a stupid selfish thing that does nothing for no one. Giving in to apathy by not voting is giving up on democracy and right now we are either voting to continue democracy or giving in to fascism.
Just to be clear I don’t endorse what the US is letting Israel do to Gaza and Palestinians and I’ve let my local representatives know this. I also wish there was someone other than Trump or Biden who had any chance at all of winning the next presidential election.
It is a stupid selfish thing that does nothing for no one. Giving in to apathy by not voting is giving up on democracy and right now we are either voting to continue democracy or giving in to fascism.
This comment is stupid selfish. Choosing not to vote for an administration that supplied the weapons that killed your family is the exact opposite of apathy.
Thereby helping the candidate who wants to enthusiastically bomb said family and assist Israel in annexing remaining lands, I suppose that will end this conflict, but not in the way they want.
Choosing not to vote for an administration that supplied the weapons that killed your family is the exact opposite of apathy
I guess we’ll lose the votes of all seven people this possibly applies to
Honestly? They should either abstain or vote for a third party.
I’ll preface this by saying that I’m not a US citizen, so what I say below is NOT advice. It’s simply my thoughts to (almost) play devil’s advocate for the benefit of discussion!
I’m well aware of the ‘cowardice’ of abstaining in this election. Yes, Trump has the potential to do harm to Muslims tomorrow, but Biden is harming them today. Trump currently hates Netenyahu, wants him impeached and disagrees with his actions in Gaza (yes it’s because of a petty reason but that’s Trump’s MO!)
Biden is running again, and he is a self-proclaimed Zionist who supports Israel on a personal level, not only politically.
As much as many others want to avoid a second Trump term, voting for Biden means you support him, and support his actions. There’s nothing in your vote that separates you from those who unequivocally agree with what he’s doing in Gaza. If Biden wins and then he continues to assist in genocide in Gaza, then that’s directly related to the democrat vote.
If democrats know they’ll lose the election with Biden, they need to front another candidate fast. Failure to do so is accepting defeat.
This is Biden fault not American voters. He chooses to ignore voters and choose to ignore problems. Voters shouldn’t be blamed for the correct policies people want.
Speaking as someone who is strongly anti-Israel, the idea that American voters are opposed to military aid to Israel is just… not connected with reality.
That’s because us regular people aren’t in control of the country. Our leadership is akin to what you see in professional wrestling, you have “the heel” and “the face.” One group pretends to be the bad guys and the other pretends to be the good guys, but they’re really all friends who hang out in the same circles behind the scenes. What they present to the public is all an act.
This is also not connected with reality. Their interests often align, but they seldom hang out together. In the past this happened a lot more.
Third party, unironically.
inb4 helping the other side/first-past/throwing votes/electoral college. Gotta show em this is what happens when they are ignored.
The place to do this is in the primaries, unironically. After that you are voting for the better of two candidates and any vote outside of that is still a decision between two candidates.
Yeah but what about the democrats using superdelegates and general fuckery to get Bernie out in 2016? I know they changed the superdelegate system at some point but still. Only time I’ve seen an outsider actually decimate and forcibly enter the party was Trump. And even then he still capitulated to general Republican beliefs.
Plus the current democrat primary is just a hippy, biden, someone nobody has heard of and Cenk who 99% will get disqualified since the dude wasn’t born in the US. I mean there’s a chance Manchin might run but he’s probably gonna go independent/No Labels.
This year we have an incumbent, there were a huge number of candidates in the Democratic primary race for president before 2020, many dropped out before voting because they were not viable, you are totally misrepresenting the primary process.
The Democrats did not need superdelegates in the end to reject Bernie in 2016. There’s also some significant evidence that Bernie was supported by Russian disinformation in an effort to get President Trump elected. That same disinformation effort that was seeking to discredit US elections in both parties and led to January 6th.
So what? The Russians support anything to sow discord. Just like Democrats supporting extremist Republican candidates to cause mayhem. It’s literally just a facet of American politics and vice versa (American government supporting radical candidates elsewhere). Bernie’s campaign was one of the most progressive the democrats had seen in forever. Even far more progressive than anyone in the squad.
Course these days the guy’s a joke but I don’t feel like going into his ‘fall from grace’.
The so what is that your perception of him being wronged specifically comes from Russian disinformation in an effort to suppress the vote in the general election. This was overall a successful campaign.
He simply lost. It was the most successful progressive campaign since John Edwards.
Yeah, I mean, even with what the dems/media did against him he did still lose. And he did do stupid stuff on the campaign, irelevant of whoever funded him. He had avenues to continue on and cause damage, such as accepting the green party nomination with Jill Stein (yes I know about the ‘possible’ russian connection there) but alas he just backed down.
I guess I’ll look into the russian disinfo with Bernie then. Far as I was previously aware there was just some screwy things with the Bernie bros but that was it. Don’t know much about his 2020 campaign but I didn’t really take that seriously anyways.
inb4 helping the other side/first-past/throwing votes/electoral college
So you know all the reasons why what you choose to do is wrong but do it anyway?
Gotta show em this is what happens when they are ignored.
You already admitted that’s not what you are actually accomplishing but I guess lying to yourself makes you feel better.
Yeah sure. Vote democrat. Nothings ever gonna change. Not now. Not ever.
If voting Democrat isn’t going to change anything, voting third party is definitely not going to change anything. Might as well make the higher percentage play, which is voting Democrat.
Sure. Keep up the defeatism. It’s what those in power want. This is probably the only American thing I will never understand.
You want to give up, throw your vote away voting for some third party crank and somehow I’m the defeatist? I want some of whatever you’re smoking because it sounds really strong.
I can’t continue with this line of reasoning. You are the one whos equating voting third party with not voting and apathy. Nothing will change in the States. Never ever.
The only ones peddling defeatism here are the ones advocating for the greater evil because the aren’t getting everything they want.
The number of Muslims who voted for Trump actually increased between 2016 and 2020.
Islam is a deeply conservative religion so this tracks.
As is always the case when it comes to elections, choosing to not vote for the lesser evil is just voting for the greater evil
Which is unfortunate because it then becomes a matter of “I am voting against the candidate I don’t like” rather than “I am voting for the candidate I like”, and the voice of the people get lost.
Welcome to FPTP voting. System is working as designed.
While I would certainly love to see us replace FPTP, I’m not sure it would change much. Democrats have had two good bites at the apple of picking a progressive candidate in the last two Presidential Election cycles. The second bite even had several options across a spectrum of progressiveness. The moderate, old, white guy candidate won overwhelmingly both times.
We need more than a change in voting systems. We need a change in views.
In a healthy democracy, the second part of voting would come into play: You contact your local representative, and tell them what you want them to do. If enough of a representatives constituents directly voice their disapproval, the representative is forced to act, or else lose those voters. Its essentially lobbying, but leveraging your vote directly.
The caveats of course are that it doesnt work well for minorities, and you need a healthy functioning democracy, so, your mileage may vary :(
Yep and we wind up in the exact situation we’re in as a country currently. These people are demanding that you keep the status quo.
That voice exists in primaries and local elections. The general is for strategic voting. It’s how all party politics works.
To all the ppl who constantly argue how stupid and reactionary doing so is, what exactly are they suppose to do?
Choose the lesser evil, support more palatable candidates in future primaries, work to reform our elections so they are not first-past-the-post, encourage one’s family/ppl just like them to put pressure on their leaders to end intifada and make concessions for a viable peace.
but I wouldn’t blame anyone (especially the family of a dead relative bombed by Israel) to sit this next election out.
Choosing the greater evil is a terrible idea and it won’t work out well for them.
Choosing the lesser evil put them in their current situation. We’re talking about ENTIRE families, multiple generations being killed and ppl are asking them to toe the line with no possible repercussions to Democrat’s.
it won’t work out well for them.
I fail to see how anything could be worse than your entire family, culture, and country/home being turned into a parking lot. Except all that happening and ppl telling you it could be worse
I fail to see how anything could be worse than your entire family, culture, and country/home being turned into a parking lot. Except all that happening and ppl telling you it could be worse
The Biden administration is encouraging Israel to show restraint, minimize body count, and target military targets. Trump would relish punitive bombings that target civilians and Israeli annexations. He’s already said he’s bringing back the Muslim ban. If there’s still people that can die, land that has yet to be turned into parking lots, and freedoms to be lost, there’s plenty of good reasons.
Working to usurp Biden to aid Trump is the political equivalent of suicide bombing; if they carry out the threat it will certainly damage them more, but they’re taking the rest of us out with them if they don’t get what they want.
The Biden administration is encouraging Israel to show restraint, minimize body count, and target military targets.
Yeah and the bombings of hospitals, mosques, civilian neighborhoods and the 17000+ dead really show Bidens hard work.
but they’re taking the rest of us out with them if they don’t get what they want.
That’s what it fundamentally comes down to. The selfishness that defines America. They’re suppose to suck it up and fall in line for Biden because the opposite outcome takes you down too. The ppl ultimately responsible for voting in Trump are ppl that vote for him. If you want Muslims and Palestinians to vote maybe your argument shouldnt be the guy not killing your family is so much worse, you’re so stupid.
And for the record I’m not calling for a boycott on voting but I’m not going to demonize Palestinians or Muslim Americans for sitting out this election.
The ppl ultimately responsible for voting in Trump are ppl that vote for him
And the people who stay home or waste votes on candidates who are not viable. Can’t ignore the realities of our system.
Yeah cuz the urgings from Biden are helping so much lmao
Perhaps encouragement from Trump will be more effective.
Sadly that will be making a statement and handing the country back to a wannabe dictator and worse conditions for them in particular.
Do you want someone enabling genocide or someone who will enact a genocide? Both suck but equating them is beyond idiocy.
What’s beyond idiocy is defending either one of those two positions.
Paragon +5
Simply vote for the man who is actively supplying the weapons to kill your family/kill ppl just like you
Yes. The same way Russians are overwhelmingly Christian and yet US Christians should support war against them
Not sure why anyone on the planet would feel any solidarity with Hamas.
You realize that regardless of what the US does, they’re going to be hated by one side or the other. There is no winning this diplomatically.
So we’re going to vote based on which candidate will turn OUR country into a dictatorship, and which one won’t.
And maybe… just maybe- it’s not the US’s problem to begin with. Thats a war that’s gone on for a LONG fucking time.
“Murdering racist”
Got any more myopic, reactionary blasphemy in there?
Lol what?
You attek God now answer
Just a reminder if you take Zyrtec in the USA that the liquid gel caps ones are made in Israel but the childrens liquid is made in Switzerland. Avoid Israeli products when you can
Boycotting Israeli products is one of the only things you can do, since the US government seems complicit.
Genocidan biden
I think I’ll vote for Trump next election. Tired of this ‘lesser-evil’ bullshit.
Blame the people who keep voting for moderates.
So vote for the greater evil? I mean Trump’s stated position on Gaza is to “let it play out” so he’s for the genocide as well. He also promised to reject any refugees from Gaza.
He’s also a nihilist, on top of being as much of a lying sack-of-shit as any other politician you can name.
So if you’re voting for Trump, it’s certainly not because you care about Gaza.
And here we have a true fucking moron.
I’m so tired of people saying not voting for biden is completely equivalent to voting for trump, but this is stupid.
It’s because of the view of Not voting for Hillary over what the DNC did help give us trump. People are too afraid of GOP to vote third party or even more progressive dems.
Well, what we’ve been doing thus far hasn’t been working.
Only a fool would keep trying the same thing but expecting different results.
I think the real stupid ones are the people voting for the ‘lesser-evil.’ Maybe if they lost a few elections they’d change their tune.
Funny how it’s always progressive’s fault, though. If a moderate loses? Progressive’s fault for not ‘falling in line.’ If a progressive loses, though, nobody will blame the moderate for not ‘falling in line.’ If a Progressive wins, nobody is going to acknowledge it’s because they were progressive.
It’s a lose-lose all around, and that’s by design. I’d rather stop pretending that the lesser-evil leads to improvements because it does not. They’re both just looking out for different rich people, and in many cases the same.
I agree with and understand a lot of your frustrations, as they are also my frustrations.
But you basically said “I’m tired of voting for the lesser of two evils, so now I will vote for the greater of two evils.” Just vote 3rd party or something, and try to not take it personally when people are assholes about elections.
Yeah, I could vote 3rd party.
I guess it would depend on how flippant the establishment democrats and their constituency are behaving.
