U.S. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday that Hamas had repeatedly raped women and mutilated their bodies during its Oct.7 assault on southern Israel, citing survivors and witnesses of the attacks.
  • jordanlund@lemmy.worldMEnglish
    8924·
    11 months ago

    And the IDF is already walking it back:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/idf-appears-to-push-back-on-irresponsible-us-claim-hamas-refusing-to-release-raped-hostages/

    Just like with the “40 beheaded babies!!” don’t jump to conclusions, wait for the facts to come out.

    p.s. How bad does it have to be for the IDF to say “The conversation around the issue is irresponsible, inaccurate and should be avoided.”

    • steventhedev@lemmy.worldEnglish
      318·
      11 months ago

      Different things.

      This article is about Biden saying that women were raped on October 7th.

      The article you linked is about hostages being raped while they were being held in Gaza.

      EDIT: the motivation of the IDF to publish that is to maximize the chances of the hostages coming back alive - if Hamas feel the hostages might do more damage after being released by confirming claims such as rape or sexual assault, the worry is that they will simply execute them.

    • NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zipEnglish
      71·
      11 months ago

      I don’t know how reputable that site is, but it sounds reputable

      The pushback is apparently in response to comments from US State Department spokesman Matthew Miller Monday that Hamas terrorists likely held back on freeing female hostages because it did not want them to speak publicly about being subjected to rape and other sexual violence.

      The pushback is not on the claim of rape and mutilation. The pushback is on the rapes being a reason to hold back on hostage release.

      And I agree. The (likely) fact of the rapes and mutilation is horrific. But to even imply that is a reason that hostages are not being exchanged hurts both sides and prolongs the war. Because it implies an avenue of propaganda that would make hamas less likely to engage and it infuriates idf soldiers which leads to even more atrocities.

    • SCB@lemmy.worldEnglish
      45·
      11 months ago

      Israel doesn’t want to give Hamas more reasons not to release hostages, despite this being true.

      Any conversation that hurts hostage recovery is irresponsible, in their view, because we can just have those conversations later.

  • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.worldEnglish
    6420·
    11 months ago

    Oh man, that’s awful. I hope Israel responded by working with their regional partners and the UN to free the hostages and isolate and discredit Hamas. With a measured response and a little diplomacy, they could probably get the hostages returned safely and show the whole world that Hamas is illegitimate and needs to be defunded and dismantled. Even Gazans are sick of their shit. Hamas got like 40% in an election 18 years ago and haven’t held an election or done shit for ordinary people since.

    • sun_is_ra@sh.itjust.worksEnglish
      316·
      11 months ago

      Even Gazans are sick of their shit

      Sure but how do you think Gazan feel about IDF? Every person at least one family member, some lost their entire family. not to mention their homes, their shops and their lively hood.

      Even Palestinian from west bank where not spared with illegal settlers harassing them, kicking them out of their land and stealing their crops.

      Please don’t get me wrong Hamas is a terrorist organization but so is Natanyahu and his government.

    • Auli@lemmy.caEnglish
      2311·
      11 months ago

      No don’t you know they deserve it cause they voted in Hamas. I wonder why the same doesn’t apply for Americans and the war crimes their country has committed.

      • livus@kbin.social
        111·
        11 months ago

        @Auli the last time Hamas was even voted in was back when George W Bush was still president in America.

    • Melkath@kbin.social
      1211·
      11 months ago

      But if they did that, how would Biden subsidize the military industrial complex by giving billions and billions of dollars to Israel so they can buy American weapons and ammunition to continue the same oppressive slaughter of Palestine?

      The guns and ammunition need to be spent on someone, might as well be spent on the brown people half the world away, like every American “war” after the Civil one.

      And just to note, this abject dependence on the military industrial complex to enrich the 1% has not caused a consistent and constant slide to the right of the entire US Federal government. All 2 sides.

      And we couldn’t have done this for Ukraine at the same level because if we did, we wouldn’t be within sucking distance of Putin’s tiny shriveled peen.

      /s

      • Lividpeon@kbin.social
        53·
        11 months ago

        Mexican American War, killing brown people close to home for practice before doing it abroad. Our country fucking loves killing people as much as Kanye loooooovesss hitler

    • BraveSirZaphod@kbin.social
      66·
      11 months ago

      Even Gazans are sick of their shit

      Do you have evidence of that? Because some polling has been done over the last few months, and it’s been showing consistently high support for Hamas and the October 7th attacks in general. The reason why the Palestinian Authority hasn’t held elections in the West Bank in ages is because Hamas would probably win them.

      I shouldn’t have to say this, but that of course does not mean that civilians deserve to be bombed.

      • ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.worldEnglish
        72·
        11 months ago

        https://www.washingtoninstitute.org/policy-analysis/polls-show-majority-gazans-were-against-breaking-ceasefire-hamas-and-hezbollah I don’t know that there’s reliable evidence either way. That was written right after the war started so when they say ceasefire, they mean before Oct 7. I guess I’d say the polling is a mixed bag? I’m really not sure how to interpret Gaza polls.

        TL/DR: I used to work in politics (in the U.S.) so I’m gonna be long-winded here but in short: I’m not sure how accurate any poll in Gaza can be. But here’s my thoughts:

        Firstly, how accurate can polls be in any autocratic place? If your town was ruled by violent goons, would you tell some caller from an unknown number (or a stranger face-to-face) that you disapprove? Putin probably has great poll numbers.

        Even if they are accurate, there’s always a “rally around the flag” effect at the start of a war. So, post Oct 7 polls might be weird. (Like, George W Bush had a 90% approval rating for a brief period.) It could be like asking “Do you support the troops?”

        A third issue with Gaza polling is when they ask it like “Do you support Hamas or Fatah?” You can hate Hamas and not want corrupt, weak, ineffectual leaders shipped in from the West Bank.

        So, I think it’s reasonable to expect the “true” margin of error to be way higher than a typical poll in a stable, peaceful, democratic country. If it’s +/- 20%, you can find a poll that suits your agenda.

  • filoria@lemmy.mlEnglish
    3323·
    11 months ago

    Just like how Biden saw pictures of beheaded babies, right?

  • AutoTL;DR@lemmings.worldBEnglish
    41·
    11 months ago

    This is the best summary I could come up with:

    BOSTON, Dec 5 (Reuters) - U.S. President Joe Biden said on Tuesday that Hamas had repeatedly raped women and mutilated their bodies during its Oct.7 assault on southern Israel, citing survivors and witnesses of the attacks.

    In a statement on its Telegram channel, Hamas said it denounced Biden’s “attempt to falsely accuse” its fighters of committing sexual violence and rape on Oct. 7.

    The Islamist group said Biden was joining Israel’s effort to cover up war crimes in Gaza committed with U.S. support and to mislead public opinion.

    Israel held an event at the United Nations in New York on Monday focused on sexual violence against women during the Oct. 7 attack.

    Rape as a weapon of war is a crime against humanity," former U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton told the event in a pre-recorded video.

    On Tuesday, Biden blamed Hamas for the collapse of a truce last week that had halted Israel’s retaliatory military campaign against Gaza, saying the militant group’s “refusal to release the remaining young women is what broke this deal”.

    The original article contains 437 words, the summary contains 175 words. Saved 60%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!

  • Kusimulkku@lemm.eeEnglish
    3·
    11 months ago

    Well yeah I’d be surprised if that didn’t happen. Let a bunch of people with guns loose on the civilians and that’ll happen.

    • interceder270@lemmy.worldEnglish
      52·
      11 months ago

      Everytime they get caught in a lie, more people have to realize they’ve been duped.

      Imagine shouting from the rooftops “beheaded babies!” and then it turns out to be false. Hopefully that will put things into perspective for some.

  • Linkerbaan@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1216·
    11 months ago

    Yeah this has already been debunked. There is zero evidence of any rape. If there was we would have seen it by now.

    Joe “40 beheaded babies” Biden repeating IDF propaganda isn’t news.

  • TheBananaKing@lemmy.worldEnglish
    4853·
    11 months ago

    Israel bombed, burned, starved and shot a hundred times more during Gaza genocide. What’s your point?

      • dustywinter@discuss.tchncs.deEnglish
        1519·
        11 months ago

        The person you are replying to did not offer any support to the horrible things done in that area.

        …unless you believe their statement was supportive of the actions done by Israel.

      • lolcatnip@reddthat.comEnglish
        1425·
        11 months ago

        Doesn’t sound that way to me. Are you in the “any criticism of Israel is antisemitic” camp by any chance?

        Edit: Looking at your post history, I see you’re not. But damn, you’re really jumping the gun there.

    • apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2925·
      11 months ago

      Agreed. It is classic deflection propaganda. When you do horrific things exponentially worse, scream loudly about the opposing side and their actions. To be clear, raping women is absolutely wrong and those people should be arrested. 16000+ dead in a genocide should be the thing being spoken about. Instead this provides cover for never speaking about it.

    • Scrof@sopuli.xyzEnglish
      1036·
      11 months ago

      You leftist cannibals and your pity points maths are absolutely despicable.

      • filister@lemmy.worldEnglish
        62·
        11 months ago

        How about humanists? Do you truly believe that your life is worth more than the life of some Gazan? If you truly do, you are part of the problem.

  • Quokka@quokk.auEnglish
    1825·
    11 months ago

    Yes? We all know this and have since the first day.

    Why bring this back up a month later, has something changed or is he simply pushing for an emotional response to a complicated situation?

    Is this simply another hollow justification for Israel’s crimes against humanity?

    • Fades@lemmy.worldEnglish
      267·
      11 months ago

      has something changed

      It’s been independently verified, so yes. It’s not just repeating old news, it’s backing up what was initially hearsay. The US don’t announce it until now as it’s been confirmed.

      Are you implying that restating newly confirmed facts is biased in favor Israel??

      Also, Biden has personally played a big role in the Hamas / Israel talks and getting cease fires and such agreed upon. It’s not like he’s randomly attacking Israeli enemies. We had Americans there so it is further relevant to Biden and the country.

      Obligatory fuck the IDF

    • gedaliyah@lemmy.worldEnglish
      187·
      11 months ago

      I think it has more to do with a surprising number of people still denying that it happened despite even more testimony coming out.

      • interceder270@lemmy.worldEnglish
        41·
        11 months ago

        Is there any evidence besides people saying something?

        That would shut the deniers up fast!

        Edit: no evidence :(

    • blargerer@kbin.social
      146·
      11 months ago

      Returned hostages have had time to be debriefed and interviewed now, so their experiences are getting a news cycle.

  • Silverseren@kbin.social
    1724·
    11 months ago

    This was already well known within a week of October 7th and was reported on extensively then. But continually bringing it up in this long drawn out process seems like an attempt to downplay or deflect from the ongoing atrocities being committed by Israel.

    • NoneOfUrBusiness@kbin.social
      2018·
      11 months ago

      Actually apparently the evidence it happened is apparently pretty weak. At least no credible source reported on it happening on a large scale as fact.

      • interceder270@lemmy.worldEnglish
        41·
        11 months ago

        Yes, the only ‘evidence’ I’ve seen so far are Israeli testimonies.

        History has shown they’re not a reliable source of information on the middle east, so I don’t take their words at face-value.

        Maybe zionists should read the boy who cried wolf, lol. You behave like Russia, you get treated like Russia 🤷

  • ShroOmeric@lemmy.worldEnglish
    1219·
    11 months ago

    Biden should pay someone to verify all the bushit he catches around… seems like a teenager that just got internet access…